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Mine Exploration Forum

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Author Big Trouble Brewing at Sir Francis ?
christwigg

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Joined: 20/02/2008
Location: Cleveland / North Yorkshire

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Big Trouble Brewing at Sir Francis ?
Posted: 24/09/2012 13:45:26
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This new photo by Pringledude from Sir Francis is very worrying when compared to shots from 2008.


(click image to open full size image in new window)



Before solid beam


(click image to open full size image in new window)

After cracked beam


(click image to open full size image in new window)

Same goes for the straight rusted chain


(click image to open full size image in new window)

Now chain has dropped and kinked


(click image to open full size image in new window)

If it continues I would imagine most of the cage and the headframe will be heading down the flooded shaft in the near future


IP: 145.8.104.65 Edited: 24/09/2012 13:58:02 by christwigg
rhychydwr

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Joined: 09/06/2007
Location: Cwmparc, Rhondda, South Wales, UK.

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Big Trouble Brewing at Sir Francis ?
Posted: 24/09/2012 16:17:01
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Don't stand in the cage Smile

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Cutting coal in my spare time.
IP: 86.177.206.13
christwigg

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Big Trouble Brewing at Sir Francis ?
Posted: 24/09/2012 16:21:18
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Yes, I think photo opportunities in the cage would be extremely ill advised now. IP: 145.8.104.65
Edd

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Joined: 02/07/2008
Location: Alderley Edge

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Big Trouble Brewing at Sir Francis ?
Posted: 24/09/2012 16:23:42
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Think a trip needs to be done sooner rather than later Blink

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christwigg

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Big Trouble Brewing at Sir Francis ?
Posted: 24/09/2012 16:28:46
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edd wrote:

Think a trip needs to be done sooner rather than later Blink


Yeah, no chickening out with a broken foot this time (or was that Brandy Bottle ?) Laugh
IP: 145.8.104.65
Edd

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Big Trouble Brewing at Sir Francis ?
Posted: 24/09/2012 16:58:07
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That was brandy bottle Blush

I will get a trip sorted in the next few weeks then Thumbs Up

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Brakeman

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Big Trouble Brewing at Sir Francis ?
Posted: 24/09/2012 17:20:30
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Well spotted, still not visited this mine yet. Pity the beam is so high up, as really it needs some support.

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IP: 86.170.63.74
Wesker26

Joined: 21/09/2007
Location: Whitby, North Yorkshire

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Big Trouble Brewing at Sir Francis ?
Posted: 24/09/2012 19:50:25
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Thats a real shame, it could last another 10 days or another 10 years but now it has begun to fail there isnt much that can be done to prevent that... however there are options for slowing the inevitable.

I dont know how heavy the cage is but i would say its the main reason for the beam going as the crack is on the same end as the sheeve wheel the rope for the cage goes over.

So two potential solutions for preventing all of it plummeting down the shaft are:

1. Bolt heavy duty cables into the chamber walls above and raise the cage up putting its weight on these new cables.

or the more drastic measure....

2. Cut the cage and allow it to plummet alone down the shaft which would atleast save the headgear for the time being.

What do you guys think?
IP: 109.145.70.30 Edited: 24/09/2012 20:03:07 by Wesker26
royfellows

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Location: Great Wyrley near Walsall

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Big Trouble Brewing at Sir Francis ?
Posted: 24/09/2012 19:53:37
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Is there anyone on here from the local group?
If not, they should be made aware.

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Whatever you find difficult do more not less, then it become easy.
IP: 78.148.241.79
christwigg

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Big Trouble Brewing at Sir Francis ?
Posted: 24/09/2012 19:57:36
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I think sirfrancislilo should be able to feedback to the immediate locals.

But a lot of us live about 1hr away.

Although I think it would be a hell of an engineering project to either support the whole lot or even just the cages.

Not sure who has the manpower and cash required.
IP: 81.103.213.148 Edited: 24/09/2012 20:06:43 by christwigg
SimonRL

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Big Trouble Brewing at Sir Francis ?
Posted: 24/09/2012 20:14:19
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It'd be a feat of logistics just to get materials there.

But it certainly needs saving if it can be.

Does an accurate survey / diagram of it exist?

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christwigg

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Big Trouble Brewing at Sir Francis ?
Posted: 24/09/2012 20:20:01
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There a PDMHS document.

http://www.pdmhs.com/PDFs/ScannedBulletinArticles/Bulletin%2015-4&5%20-%20Sir%20Francis%20Level%20-%20Driven%20by%20Water.pdf

Which can get you back to 1880 article in the Engineer.

http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/images/b/b9/Er18800430.pdf

And the Davey book (page 230 but half the figures missing)

http://archive.org/details/principlesconst00davegoog

IP: 81.103.213.148 Edited: 24/09/2012 20:28:22 by christwigg
christwigg

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Big Trouble Brewing at Sir Francis ?
Posted: 24/09/2012 20:33:23
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Heres one with the diagrams working.

http://archive.org/details/cu31924080782240

I've saved a copy to the database as its out of copyright.

http://www.aditnow.co.uk/documents/Sir-Francis-Level-Lead-Mine/Sir-Francis-Davey.pdf
IP: 81.103.213.148 Edited: 24/09/2012 20:52:28 by christwigg
pringledude

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Big Trouble Brewing at Sir Francis ?
Posted: 24/09/2012 20:59:01
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royfellows wrote:

Is there anyone on here from the local group?
If not, they should be made aware.


Have messaged Peter Roe to see what he has to say about it.

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Brakeman

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Big Trouble Brewing at Sir Francis ?
Posted: 24/09/2012 21:09:20
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Is the cage slightly higher than the level, I have not seen it situ, but this photo seems to show it just above, if this is the case than some legnths of rail could possibly be put under it and hammered into the loose blocks on the far side, maybe..



(click image to open full size image in new window)

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Morlock

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Big Trouble Brewing at Sir Francis ?
Posted: 25/09/2012 03:36:12
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Are the circled items Keps, (guides seem to be at sides)?
If so, perhaps it may be easier to drill and bolt through as less kit portage involved?



IP: 86.31.91.101
christwigg

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Big Trouble Brewing at Sir Francis ?
Posted: 25/09/2012 08:02:25
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Brakeman wrote:

Is the cage slightly higher than the level, I have not seen it situ, but this photo seems to show it just above, if this is the case than some legnths of rail could possibly be put under it and hammered into the loose blocks on the far side, maybe..



(click image to open full size image in new window)


I was thinking something similar as it would be less intrusive if you could somehow get something under the cage and jack it up a couple of inches to take the weight off the wheels, rather than having modern wires or scaff in every future photo.

IP: 81.103.213.148 Edited: 25/09/2012 08:04:16 by christwigg
dangerous dave

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Big Trouble Brewing at Sir Francis ?
Posted: 25/09/2012 10:26:10
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the beam thats on the way out could be supported with scaff, to remove the loadand then pinned together with some steel plates to give it strength. along with supporting the cage so the main load is off the head gear that may be enough to save it IP: 2.125.68.208
christwigg

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Big Trouble Brewing at Sir Francis ?
Posted: 25/09/2012 10:31:51
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dangerous dave wrote:

the beam thats on the way out could be supported with scaff, to remove the loadand then pinned together with some steel plates to give it strength. along with supporting the cage so the main load is off the head gear that may be enough to save it


The logistics of getting any equipment there is the main problem, you can't just rock-up with a van full of gear.

1.5 mile walk to the entrance which is a small vertical shaft with a 90 degree corner at the bottom (getting a long scaff bar around the corner would be a challenge), followed by a mile underground in waist deep water to get there.
IP: 145.8.104.65 Edited: 25/09/2012 10:33:43 by christwigg
dangerous dave

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Big Trouble Brewing at Sir Francis ?
Posted: 25/09/2012 10:39:05
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christwigg wrote:

dangerous dave wrote:

the beam thats on the way out could be supported with scaff, to remove the loadand then pinned together with some steel plates to give it strength. along with supporting the cage so the main load is off the head gear that may be enough to save it


The logistics of getting any equipment there is the main problem, you can't just rock-up with a van full of gear.

1.5 mile walk to the entrance which is a small shaft with a 90 degree corner at the bottom, followed by a mile underground in waist deep water to get there.


wow ok that will make it hard to do anything on a large scale i was not aware of the access. could something be done with epoxy or resin based systems it would be easy to transport rather than large sheet steels
IP: 2.125.68.208
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