Mine exploration, photographs and mining history for mine explorers, industrial archaeologists, researchers and historians Mine explorer and mining history videos on YouTube Connect with other mine explorers on Facebook
Tip: do not include 'mine' or 'quarry', search by name e.g. 'cwmorthin', use 'Sounds like search' if unsure of spelling

Advanced Search
'Sounds like search'
Quick a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z
Tip: narrow down your search by typing more than one word and selecting 'Search for all words' or 'Exact search'

Search for any word
Search for all words
Exact search
Tip: narrow down your search by typing more than one word and selecting 'Search for all words' or 'Exact search'

Search for any word
Search for all words
Exact search

Mine Exploration Forum

This topic is locked, no replies can be added.
Jump to page << < 1 2 3 4 > >>
Author buying an old mine
funksalug

Joined: 06/08/2012

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
buying an old mine
Posted: 06/08/2012 11:02:11
a friend of mine (he he) wants to buy an old mine....

doesnt matter what type of mine, as long as you dont need a lift.....a walk in jobby, wales or the west...

any ideas?????

daz
IP: 194.83.245.53
Edd

Avatar of Edd

Joined: 02/07/2008
Location: Alderley Edge

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
buying an old mine
Posted: 06/08/2012 16:24:52
Sounds rather suspicious to me Laugh

Whats he wanting the mine for?

--

'I started reading it with full intention to read it all and then got bored and went and got beer instead!'
IP: 86.157.138.2
JohnnearCfon

Avatar of JohnnearCfon

Joined: 22/12/2005
Location: Sir Caernarfon

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
buying an old mine
Posted: 06/08/2012 16:31:55
He should also be aware that the owner of the land around and including the mine entrance and the owner of the mine workings underground are quite often two different people (or organisations). IP: 78.150.134.9
lozz

Joined: 03/08/2012
Location: Cornwall

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
buying an old mine
Posted: 06/08/2012 16:40:25
Interesting thread, I own some land with some long abandond mine workings on it, I do know that the mineral rights are reserved but I have always considered the workings themselves to belong to me.
Any legal eagles around on this forum?

Lozz
IP: 86.173.18.45
christwigg

Avatar of christwigg

Joined: 20/02/2008
Location: Cleveland / North Yorkshire

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
buying an old mine
Posted: 06/08/2012 16:41:28
He wants to buy a mine and doesn't even care what type eh ?
I suggest he looks into treacle mines.
IP: 145.8.104.65 Edited: 06/08/2012 16:46:58 by christwigg
JohnnearCfon

Avatar of JohnnearCfon

Joined: 22/12/2005
Location: Sir Caernarfon

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
buying an old mine
Posted: 06/08/2012 16:45:42
What about the Pot Noodle mines near Tanygrisiau?

Laugh
IP: 78.150.134.9
stuey

Avatar of stuey

Joined: 15/08/2007

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
buying an old mine
Posted: 06/08/2012 17:19:17
I think you own the mine, but the mineral lord owns anything of value in it. Including the gangue.

Crazy really.
IP: 92.29.170.157
lozz

Joined: 03/08/2012
Location: Cornwall

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
buying an old mine
Posted: 06/08/2012 17:39:46
stuey wrote:

I think you own the mine, but the mineral lord owns anything of value in it. Including the gangue.

Crazy really.


Hi Stuey, I think you are probably right, I have just found my Land Registry copy for a peice of land I own (not connected with the house I live in) there is no mention of the mines/tunnels on or under the land in question but it does say that the rights to tin, copper and other metaliferous deposits have been reserved ie: to someone else.

Interestingly the plot I live on (totaly disconnected from the land mentioned above) reserves not only the minerals but the mines also.

So in a nutshell I think I own the mine/tunnels on my seperate peice of land that I own but not the rights to the minerals, and where the house is on the plot I live on I neither own the mines beneath my feet nor the minerals contained in the ground below my feet. I think I am right in all this.

Lozz.
IP: 86.173.18.45
scooptram

Joined: 22/05/2007

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
buying an old mine
Posted: 06/08/2012 17:46:47
that sounds about right if i remember someone owend a mine site and wanted to perserve it and was told they would be prosacuted if they removed any dirt from the mine because they didnt have the mineral rights aswell ,i know someone on here who will know where im talking about and put me right if im wrong

--

mind that rock OUCH
IP: 86.137.63.172
lozz

Joined: 03/08/2012
Location: Cornwall

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
buying an old mine
Posted: 06/08/2012 17:59:06
scooptram wrote:

that sounds about right if i remember someone owend a mine site and wanted to perserve it and was told they would be prosacuted if they removed any dirt from the mine because they didnt have the mineral rights aswell ,i know someone on here who will know where im talking about and put me right if im wrong


Hi Scooptram, yes that sounds about right, the reserved rights to minerals etc are usually all encompassing, ie: both on the land and also below, quite often there is a value base line quoted ie: doesn't include anything with a lesser value than roadstone, in otherwords they reserve all the best bits, you as the land owner keep all the crap.
So far as I am aware the law still stands that you own the land to the center of the earth but I suspect there might be certain legal precidants.
Interesting subject.

Lozz.
IP: 86.173.18.45
stuey

Avatar of stuey

Joined: 15/08/2007

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
buying an old mine
Posted: 06/08/2012 20:49:50
Or as lord might say,

"My minerals, your subsidence problem".

I gather there is a particularly large engine house, somewhere in W Cornwall which (would clearly be worth a bloody fortune to a developer) has no owners. This is despite the very obvious candidates being asked directly.

See, my minerals, someone else's chimney stack though your roof/across the road. It must be unlikely that this moderately mediocre copper mine has anying of interest left in it and what is left is more of a liability. I imagine if you put in planning permission for a mine, they'd immediately come to the forefront waving their scrolls.
IP: 94.197.186.220 Edited: 06/08/2012 20:50:25 by stuey
loomis

Joined: 27/10/2009

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
buying an old mine
Posted: 06/08/2012 21:33:58
christwigg wrote:

He wants to buy a mine and doesn't even care what type eh ?
I suggest he looks into treacle mines.


He'll find evidence of just such a mine at Dale Abbey, Derbyshire. The Dale Abbey No.2 drift mine, owned by the Stanton Ironworks Company (later Stanton and Staveley) was known as the 'Treacle Mine' as the coal extracted from the Kilburn seam at that mine was of such a constituency that when burned it ran like treacle between the bars of the iron furnaces at Stanton Ironworks and was therefore unsuitable for ironmaking. The pit closed in the 1920's.

I refer you to my friend Iclok, who has explored this site in some depth, and who I believe may have posted some photo's herein.
IP: 90.244.107.12
lozz

Joined: 03/08/2012
Location: Cornwall

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
buying an old mine
Posted: 06/08/2012 21:34:51
stuey wrote:

Or as lord might say,

"My minerals, your subsidence problem".

I gather there is a particularly large engine house, somewhere in W Cornwall which (would clearly be worth a bloody fortune to a developer) has no owners. This is despite the very obvious candidates being asked directly.

See, my minerals, someone else's chimney stack though your roof/across the road. It must be unlikely that this moderately mediocre copper mine has anying of interest left in it and what is left is more of a liability. I imagine if you put in planning permission for a mine, they'd immediately come to the forefront waving their scrolls.


I suspect you are entirely right, it's not anywhere near Giew ist it?

"Life in the 21st century....I think basically the barons are still shafting the surfs"

Lozz
IP: 86.173.18.45
tomh

Joined: 16/07/2009
Location: st austell

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
buying an old mine
Posted: 06/08/2012 21:39:18
Mineral rights are a sh*tter

My family have some land that has mineral rights on it, a company in the mineral trade who shall remain nameless bought the rights.......................
then rammed a mineral carrying pipeline through!

Very underhand
IP: 109.152.93.228
lozz

Joined: 03/08/2012
Location: Cornwall

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
buying an old mine
Posted: 06/08/2012 21:50:25
Hi Tomh, would that be china clay? I have one of them going through my place...I'll have to check the deeds even though it's long been disused.

Lozz.
IP: 86.173.18.45
tomh

Joined: 16/07/2009
Location: st austell

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
buying an old mine
Posted: 06/08/2012 22:04:28
For legal reasons I am unwilling to comment, however I do live near other imerys sites IP: 109.152.93.228
lozz

Joined: 03/08/2012
Location: Cornwall

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
buying an old mine
Posted: 06/08/2012 22:18:33
tomh wrote:

For legal reasons I am unwilling to comment, however I do live near other imerys sites


I fully understand.

Lozz.
IP: 86.173.18.45
Manicminer

Avatar of Manicminer

Joined: 29/04/2007
Location: North Wales

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
buying an old mine
Posted: 06/08/2012 23:12:28
On ME you posted that you want the mine for storage.

--

Gold is where you find it
IP: 95.147.254.52
exspelio

Joined: 02/05/2012
Location: peak district

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
buying an old mine
Posted: 06/08/2012 23:46:49
In Derbyshire you can still "nick" a lead mine, although it has not been done recently, I think the last time was Ron Amner nicking Goodluck back in the 1960's.
You have to follow all the rules and pay tithes to all the relevant bodies, look up Edward Manlove, he listed all the rules in his rhyme and as far as I am aware they have not been superceded. Smartass

I daresay there is a member of the Barmote Court active on this site. Glare

--

Always remember, nature is in charge, get it wrong and it is you who suffers!.
IP: 87.127.158.157 Edited: 06/08/2012 23:49:54 by exspelio
Graigfawr

Joined: 04/11/2009

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
buying an old mine
Posted: 07/08/2012 04:32:33
Ownership of minerals separate to surface can be a very complex issue. It all turns on the precise wording of the mineral reservation. There can be scope for very expensive dispute.

I was involved in a case in a coal mining area where a dispute worth over 1.5 million pounds turned on the interpretation and intention of a mid C19 deed. Need less to say, both parties had different interpretations and could exhibit various precedents to support their interpretations. Their legal bills threatened to come close to equaling the value of the minerals being disputed. Mineral ownership disputes can have scope for being very expensive. The surface owner, where the minerals are in separate ownership, can sometimes have few rights in the matter.

Another revolved around the modern value of inter-coal seam shales (equivalent to country rock between metalliferous veins) and whether a mid C19 mineral reservation could include them. The C19 deed listed all the local minerals worked at that time and concluded with the catch all of "and all other minerals". It was succeeded in demonstrating that there were (admittedly) rare precedents for inter-seam shales and similar strata having a mid C19 value and this was accepted by the court as a valid precedent. So the mineral owner owned not only the rocks usually regarded as 'minerals' (coal, fire-clay, sandstone), but also what was/is often considered 'waste' such as shale, mudstone, etc.

Case Law has made clear that the owner of minerals usually also owns voids created by their working, whether abandoned or not, including voids in rocks between the minerals actually worked. In other words, the mineral owner generally owns adits, shafts and other access-ways, as well as stopes, chambers, etc. Whether these voids and access-ways are accessible or not, and whether they are partially or even wholly collapsed seems not to affect their ownership.
IP: 67.220.0.17
Jump to page << < 1 2 3 4 > >>
Safety LED Miners Caplamps Moore Books: Specialist Books I.A. Recordings: Mining and Industrial History DVDs Starless River - Caving Store Explore a Disused Welsh Slate Mine
Disclaimer: Mine exploring can be quite dangerous, but then again it can be alright, it all depends on the weather. Please read the proper disclaimer.
© 2005 to 2015 AditNow.co.uk
Top of Page