Mine exploration, photographs and mining history for mine explorers, industrial archaeologists, researchers and historians Mine explorer and mining history videos on YouTube Connect with other mine explorers on Facebook
Tip: do not include 'mine' or 'quarry', search by name e.g. 'cwmorthin', use 'Sounds like search' if unsure of spelling

Advanced Search
'Sounds like search'
Quick a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z
Tip: narrow down your search by typing more than one word and selecting 'Search for all words' or 'Exact search'

Search for any word
Search for all words
Exact search
Tip: narrow down your search by typing more than one word and selecting 'Search for all words' or 'Exact search'

Search for any word
Search for all words
Exact search

Mine Exploration Forum

Jump to page << < 1 2 3 4 > >>
Author CARN BREA monument: can you help?
carnkie

Avatar of carnkie

Joined: 07/09/2007
Location: camborne, cornwall

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
CARN BREA monument: can you help?
Posted: 30/07/2012 12:22:18
Reply |  Quote
Keep-it-wheal wrote:



However, at the time of naming, it is highly likely that Carn Brea was a wooded hill so some of its contours would have been disguised under a canopy of trees. Does anyone know what type of trees grew there, though?



Until the seventeenth century the hill lay under a cover of oak forest which was felled upon the death of Francis Basset, Baron de Dunstanville, High Sheriff of Cornwall in the late 1640s, following impoverishment brought about by his adherence to the cause of Charles 1. Until about 1900 the hill lay under short grassy turf grazed by sheep but during the 20th century gorse has taken over.

--

The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there.
IP: 89.241.97.186
Dolcoathguy

Avatar of Dolcoathguy

Joined: 21/05/2008
Location: Camborne, Cornwall

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
CARN BREA monument: can you help?
Posted: 30/07/2012 12:28:26
Reply |  Quote
Ah That explains why it does not look so gorse covered in the Victorian images. Also there are numerous hedged footpaths on the Northside that are now difficult to walk through due to gorse, but these may also predate the gorse.

--

Is it safe to come out of the bunker yet?
IP: 194.126.226.123
JR

Avatar of JR

Joined: 07/03/2008
Location: Lurking near Hereford

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
CARN BREA monument: can you help?
Posted: 30/07/2012 13:25:36
Reply |  Quote
It's hugely unlikely the name Carn Brea has anything to do with Irish. I would accept the earlier opinion that it was named in middle or late Cornish which, as has been mentioned shares a common root with Welsh and Breton but a very distant (or none at all) to the Irish Celtic language.
The other issue is the use of tokens. In the English Midlands this was know as the 'truck' system and was widespread in any area where the was a single employer or a co ordinated group of employers. It was not restricted to mining areas but was common in mill towns and some engineering areas until an Act of Parliament in the 1830's ended the practice.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truck_Acts
IP: 95.147.193.253
carnkie

Avatar of carnkie

Joined: 07/09/2007
Location: camborne, cornwall

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
CARN BREA monument: can you help?
Posted: 30/07/2012 13:28:27
Reply |  Quote
Dolcoathguy wrote:

Ah That explains why it does not look so gorse covered in the Victorian images. Also there are numerous hedged footpaths on the Northside that are now difficult to walk through due to gorse, but these may also predate the gorse.


Not the best example but a photo from 1869.



(click image to open full size image in new window)

--

The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there.
IP: 92.28.208.135
spitfire

Avatar of spitfire

Joined: 22/04/2008
Location: Camborne

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
CARN BREA monument: can you help?
Posted: 30/07/2012 14:05:52
Reply |  Quote
It is true too say the Basset's were not liked at this time. So much so that the miners of Redruth tried to get another monument erected on top of Carn Marth which is 50ft higher than Carn Brea. this monument was in respect to the Robartes family of Lanhydrock, who were much loved and respected, but this came to nothing.
As for the monument itself, this had a spiral staircase inside that went to the very top, I think I'm right in saying this was removed during the war and went for the scrap effort.
Too say that money was raised by public subscription is a little misleading, it was raised by the "great and the good?" The Royal Cornwall Polytechnic Society being heavily involved

--

spitfire
IP: 86.175.20.44
carnkie

Avatar of carnkie

Joined: 07/09/2007
Location: camborne, cornwall

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
CARN BREA monument: can you help?
Posted: 30/07/2012 14:26:41
Reply |  Quote
Very true. A couple of examples.

Davies Gilbert £100
Lord Boscowen £50
Sir C. Lemon. Bart, M.P. £100
Sir John St. Aubyn, Bart £100
J. Buller £100

--

The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there.
IP: 78.145.140.54
Keep-it-wheal

Joined: 28/07/2012
Location: PLYMOUTH

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
CARN BREA monument: can you help?
Posted: 30/07/2012 16:58:24
Reply |  Quote
"It is true too say the Basset's were not liked at this time"

This is as I suspected. In John Bohstedt book: 'Politics of Provision' he maintains that Francis Basset boasted that he had put a stop to the Redruth Food Riots by hanging the leader.
Not the sort of man I would want to shell out my hard-earned cash to commemorate. However this is what one author said of him:
"His monumental inscription truthfully records that he was an elegant scholar, the patron of merit, and a munificent contributor to charitable institutions throughout the empire, and that he proved himself the friend of his country and of mankind"
(http://www.thepeerage.com/e259.htm)
This seems at variance with your assertion & my hunch. However I feel I might be treading on local sensibilites by asserting that he was less than an angel. Am I?
By the way Bohstedt says the Riots continued....can I ask for your source for the above quote?

IP: 82.33.15.78
KH....

Joined: 27/10/2010

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
CARN BREA monument: can you help?
Posted: 30/07/2012 21:56:55
Reply |  Quote
Many moons ago I used to walk my dogs over Carn Brea every day, I have been reading this post with great interest.

Impressed with the info that has been posted, can anyone comment on this, culled from Wiki.

In a depression between the Monument and the Castle are the remains of the Smugglers' Cave, blocked by the Council in the 1980s with rocks to stop children entering. This tunnel is rumoured to extend from the top of the Carn down into Redruth town, but it is probably an abandoned mine workings. It may have been confused with another tunnel from the castle down to St Uny’s church which was blocked off for safety reasons around 1970 by the castle owners.


The fore ground of the photo must be near the spring, near the top of the hill.
Any info on " the house of Water" North of the castle?
IP: 95.147.59.200
Trewillan

Joined: 21/02/2012

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
CARN BREA monument: can you help?
Posted: 31/07/2012 00:15:51
Reply |  Quote
KH.... wrote:


This tunnel is rumoured to extend from the top of the Carn down into Redruth town...


I think nearly every town in the country has one of these "tunnel" stories.

And they are all bollox.

IP: 2.97.4.85
Roy Morton

Avatar of Roy Morton

Joined: 09/10/2007
Location: Redruth Cornwall

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
CARN BREA monument: can you help?
Posted: 31/07/2012 00:54:13
Reply |  Quote
Trewillan wrote:

KH.... wrote:


This tunnel is rumoured to extend from the top of the Carn down into Redruth town...


I think nearly every town in the country has one of these "tunnel" stories.

And they are all bollox.



Very much like the abundance of tales associated with the County Adit which, according to the most informed of people that 'worked down Crofty all their lives', runs (variously) from Camborne to St.Austell / Portreath / Hayle / Penzance, and numerous other locations around the county.
In Camborne library there used to be, still is?, a small exhibit of finds from Carn Brea including many flint arrowheads,. I personally know of someone that has found two when just walking around on the hill.
A good source of information is 'Borlase's Cornish Antiquities' In which there is a large fold out map showing all the features including the stones. Most of the stones have names and these are graphicaly depicted in the engraving.
This is one book I would dearly like to have a copy of, but I need my arms and legs at present Laugh

--

'Bid me discourse, I will enchant thine ear'
IP: 86.181.231.17
Dolcoathguy

Avatar of Dolcoathguy

Joined: 21/05/2008
Location: Camborne, Cornwall

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
CARN BREA monument: can you help?
Posted: 31/07/2012 07:12:30
Reply |  Quote
The A.Buckley book on Dolcoath outlines the various acts the Bassetts undertook to improve conditions at this mine, will look up with examples later. From the top of my head, I know there is mention of Lady Bassett promoting the construction of the first miner's dry at this mine (maybe later 1840s?).

-Bassett Family funded schools for the poor in the 18th Century
-Raised Troops to defend Plymouth from possible Franco Spanish attack in 1779
-He part funded the New Hospital at Truro in 1799
-Petitioned the Government in 1807 to not buy copper from the Russians to help mining in Cornwall (not successful)

Other references in the same book give the impression of an uncomprising businessman but also of someone who took risks with his own money to fund new ventures.

Just a snapshot of some of the things he did that you can combine with information others have also unearthed.

- Thanks for the Photo Carnkie, I have also seen some artificially coloured ones in the frith collection that suggest less gorse. It was interesting to walk up there a few years ago after a serious gorse fire exposed much of the west side
surface.

--

Is it safe to come out of the bunker yet?
IP: 194.126.226.123 Edited: 31/07/2012 07:16:10 by Dolcoathguy
Keep-it-wheal

Joined: 28/07/2012
Location: PLYMOUTH

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
CARN BREA monument: can you help?
Posted: 31/07/2012 10:55:35
Reply |  Quote
"Many moons ago I used to walk my dogs over Carn Brea every day, I have been reading this post with great interest."

IP: 82.33.15.78
Keep-it-wheal

Joined: 28/07/2012
Location: PLYMOUTH

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
CARN BREA monument: can you help?
Posted: 31/07/2012 11:51:51
Reply |  Quote
* RETURNING TO THE INSCRIPTION *

"I agree the inscription has not weathered well but would you agree there is something kind of Egyptian in the character of its presentation & format"

OK it may not be Egyptian (or even mock Egyptian) but is it just me or is there something out of kilter with the solemnity of the rest of the design in its characterization? It's not solemn enough. It's not respectful. It's not Times Roman. It's definitely not Celtic in style or Gothic. Its unpredictable (look at the uncrossed A's) The R's are elongated. The D's aren't properly vertical.The date looks unconvincing. Could it be the stone mason is (in modern parlance) taking the ****?
RSVP
IP: 82.33.15.78
Keep-it-wheal

Joined: 28/07/2012
Location: PLYMOUTH

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
CARN BREA monument: can you help?
Posted: 31/07/2012 11:56:28
Reply |  Quote
* INSCRIPTION *

http://www.cornwalls.co.uk/photos/img3510.htm



IP: 82.33.15.78
Keep-it-wheal

Joined: 28/07/2012
Location: PLYMOUTH

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
CARN BREA monument: can you help?
Posted: 31/07/2012 12:41:23
Reply |  Quote
Inside was dark but a dim light shone down from the top of the tower onto a circular stone floor. It sounded like you were under a rocket on a windy day. The floor was covered in twigs dropped by crows that nested somewhere above. I also rememeber seeing bats' nests. Legend has it there used to be a wooden spiral staircase all the way up to the top.
One contributor said they might have been metal & removed as part of the war effort. Before my time, I'm afraid.
But there were spooky dark passageways to the left & right of the entrance which led nowhere. There is no doubt that this was a chunky statement constructed to stand for eternity! It is literally awesome from any angle, in any weather, in any age. It was designed to impress, impose & intimidate. N'est pas?

Incidentally does anyone know anything about its apparent architect, Mr Westmacott?


http://www.aditnow.co.uk/photo/West-Wheal-Basset-Copper-Mine-Archive-Album-Image-001/
IP: 82.33.15.78
Dolcoathguy

Avatar of Dolcoathguy

Joined: 21/05/2008
Location: Camborne, Cornwall

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
CARN BREA monument: can you help?
Posted: 31/07/2012 13:01:44
Reply |  Quote
Looks like this is one of the better books to get if you are interested in this location:

Tangye, M, 1981. Carn Brea: brief history and guide, Redruth.

A few secondhand copies around for under £10.

--

Is it safe to come out of the bunker yet?
IP: 194.126.226.123
carnkie

Avatar of carnkie

Joined: 07/09/2007
Location: camborne, cornwall

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
CARN BREA monument: can you help?
Posted: 31/07/2012 13:45:30
Reply |  Quote
Dolcoathguy wrote:

Looks like this is one of the better books to get if you are interested in this location:

Tangye, M, 1981. Carn Brea: brief history and guide, Redruth.

A few secondhand copies around for under £10.


Yes I thought I had a copy but if I have I can't find it.

Regarding Smugglers Cave, and I have no direct evidence for this, but if it was a storing place for contraband i can think of no logical reason why they would take on the huge task of building a tunnel.

Carn Brea would have been on one of the routes bringing the goods from Gwithian and the smugglers had a number 'stores' where they used to hide the goods. For example in 1905 they were widening the road at Four Lanes and came across a tunnel 33ft long and containing six chambers. It's seems more than probable that it was used by smugglers. In fact an octogenarian of the village remembered stories of it being used by smugglers when he was a child.

So I repeat if this was to do with smuggling I think a tunnel exceedingly unlikely. MTs aforementioned book might shed more light. It's not mentioned by The Federation of the Old Cornwall Societies.

--

The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there.
IP: 84.13.255.151 Edited: 31/07/2012 14:36:17 by carnkie
Red_Shift

Joined: 08/09/2009

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
CARN BREA monument: can you help?
Posted: 31/07/2012 17:18:32
Reply |  Quote
A good friend of mine has informed me that the pub 'red jacket' in camborne is so named because the constables hired to detain the rioters went there for drinks afterwards - I'm not sure if this is true or not but it seems plausible.

Re. smugglers tunnel that might have been mentioned in HJ and I will try to look later. I have a slightly more optimistic view than most as many years ago at my grandmother's workplace in canterbury builders found a secret tunnel from castle street to canterbury cathedral, which had previously been heavily rumoured but not found. These things do crop up from time to time!
IP: 86.128.56.23
carnkie

Avatar of carnkie

Joined: 07/09/2007
Location: camborne, cornwall

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
CARN BREA monument: can you help?
Posted: 31/07/2012 21:07:11
Reply |  Quote
Regarding the monument. It was definately built by the miners who would almost certainly have also done the inscription. Built under a certain amount of pressure by, shall we say, a higher authority.

Regarding the tunnels it is thought that there is a network under the carn but no indication that they went any further. Michael Tangye has been in the Smugglers cave but I'm told he's not sure he could even find it now.

I've also been informed by a friend that the original ladder in the monument was of wood and people could go up it if they paid a penny.

--

The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there.
IP: 84.13.255.151
Knocker

Joined: 17/06/2008

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
CARN BREA monument: can you help?
Posted: 31/07/2012 21:57:07
Reply |  Quote
Regarding the red jackets, it is so named as a result of riots in the late 1800's. The police barricaded themselves in the police house and called for the militia (The Red Jackets), who based themselves in the pub. IP: 90.221.179.107
Jump to page << < 1 2 3 4 > >>
Moore Books: Specialist Books I.A. Recordings: Mining and Industrial History DVDs Starless River - Caving Store Explore a Disused Welsh Slate Mine
Disclaimer: Mine exploring can be quite dangerous, but then again it can be alright, it all depends on the weather. Please read the proper disclaimer.
© 2005 to 2015 AditNow.co.uk
Top of Page