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Author Spanish Miners Solidarity Committee
Ty Gwyn

Joined: 30/10/2009
Location: Lampeter

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Spanish Miners Solidarity Committee
Posted: 16/07/2012 00:28:35
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As your most likely aware, the Spanish Miners have been on strike for the last 2 mths against their subsidy cuts,by a Government that has squandered Millions on over the top developements,like Airports that have never had planes land or take off,and houseing developements that remain empty,and with an unemployment rate at around 24percent,over 50 percent for under 25yrs olds,they are contemplating decimateing the Spanish Mining Industry ,with a loss of 8,000 direct jobs and 30,000 indirect jobs ,in an area where there is not much else to offer employment.

There is a fund been set up in the UK for helping these Miners,the details can be found on the following blog,sorry cannot get the hang to do these links,

http:///smscuk.blogspot.co.uk

These boys need your help.
IP: 81.156.14.94
ChrisJC

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Joined: 13/10/2007
Location: Northants

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Spanish Miners Solidarity Committee
Posted: 16/07/2012 08:41:18
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As a UK taxpayer, a good part of my taxes go to the EU. From there some of them go to Spain, where a part of them has been used to subsidise the Spanish Miners.
In the UK, the mining industry is not subsidised as far as I am aware, and has been decimated by market forces.
Therefore in the past I have subsidised foreign workers, which has put our own boys on the dole queue.

Surely I'd want the subsidies to stop in other places as it might lead to a resurgence in UK mining?

Chris.


IP: 90.152.39.96
staffordshirechina

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Joined: 15/11/2009
Location: North Staffordshire

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Spanish Miners Solidarity Committee
Posted: 16/07/2012 09:09:12
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I'm afraid I agree with Chris.
Nobody has ever offered to subsidise my mining business.
It either stands viable in it's own right or goes bust.
IP: 95.144.209.172
Peter Burgess

Joined: 01/07/2008
Location: Merstham. Or is it Godstone ...... ?

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Spanish Miners Solidarity Committee
Posted: 16/07/2012 09:19:51
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Some context would be useful before this simple request for assistance to real people become embroiled in a politics about mining subsidies, EU funding etc etc.

First, however, let's dispel this myth about how much an individual is contributing to the EU to pay for other people's subsidies.

Britain’s contribution to the EU budget as a percentage of the UK's gross national income is small - under one per cent, I suspect, from a bit of online research.

The rights and wrongs of immediately supporting people who are are in difficulty right now might be a better subject for discussion rather than national mining subsidy policy.

What a shame the topic was hijacked after only one post to make a political point. Guns

And lastly, the only place mining is going to benefit from the reduction in subsidy is going to be outside Europe. Get real!

--

Hé ! Ki kapcsolva le a villanyt ?
IP: 94.193.19.239
Minegeo

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Joined: 17/06/2008
Location: Ireland

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Spanish Miners Solidarity Committee
Posted: 16/07/2012 09:34:42
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I think it should also be borne in mind that new mine developments in Spain have been able to get up to 32% of capital costs as refunds from the Spanish Government. It was only very recently that this "gifting" was stopped. Bottom line is the mining industry in Spain has been very heaviliy subsidized for decades now, leading to many uneconomic or marginal mines being brought into production., The fact that basic economics has now dawned shows that these mines must be let close. Sorry guys but I for one would not be supporting these "civil servant miners".

Feather bedding and large unrealistic salaries for civil servants all over Europe (and the UK) is one of the biggest problems many countries face at the moment - Spain, Ireland, Greece, Italy etc

Cursing
IP: 178.167.182.30 Edited: 16/07/2012 09:37:49 by Minegeo
ChrisJC

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Spanish Miners Solidarity Committee
Posted: 16/07/2012 10:19:56
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Peter Burgess wrote:


What a shame the topic was hijacked after only one post to make a political point. Guns


It wasn't a political point particularly, it was just a 'bigger picture' opinion. I like to consider all the perspectives before digging into my funds.

Chris.

IP: 90.152.39.96
Ty Gwyn

Joined: 30/10/2009
Location: Lampeter

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Spanish Miners Solidarity Committee
Posted: 16/07/2012 10:37:50
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Thank you Peter,
I knew this would be a confrontational arguement ,and one that a lot on here would not understand.

Any Non Mining men,i can understand their reluctance to support the Spanish Miners,as they were either to Young or had no concern to the UK Mining Industry in 84/85,

But them that were in the industry at the time ,seem to have short memories,the Spanish Miners sent funds to help with the Strike Appeal here,

So hang your heads in shame,unless you were part of the UDM.
IP: 86.134.135.87
Peter Burgess

Joined: 01/07/2008
Location: Merstham. Or is it Godstone ...... ?

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Spanish Miners Solidarity Committee
Posted: 16/07/2012 10:45:53
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You (Chris) made a claim that your subsidy via the EU of another country's mining industry put UK miners out of work. I believe this is a false picture based on the erroneous idea that a significant amount of your tax is sent off to the EU, which I think is a popular fallacy, largely put about by die-hard euro-sceptics. By all means carry on putting the original post into a wider picture, but perhaps we need to be a bit wary of how much truth your wider picture holds. In the 1980s, UK miners received a certain amount of help to get through the redundancy - I know as I work with an ex-miner from that time who was there and is gainfully employed as a result of such schemes. I doubt the Spanish could afford to do what we did in the 80s and 90s. At the end of the day, whatever the politics might say, it is ordinary families who struggle.

--

Hé ! Ki kapcsolva le a villanyt ?
IP: 94.193.19.239 Edited: 16/07/2012 10:47:01 by Peter Burgess
miner1985

Joined: 17/11/2007
Location: South Wales

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Spanish Miners Solidarity Committee
Posted: 16/07/2012 20:18:10
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Some strange views here. As one who was on strike for 12 months in the 80's I have already made a donation. No matter what country they are from they are fighting for their jobs against a system which doesn't give a damn.
What do you want to happen that thousands of them are thrown out of work in an area which is already struggling. The area looks like parts of the South Wales coalfield look what happened here after pit closures!!!

The fund is to help them and their families not to bail out bankers. Perhaps it is due to my left wing views but I wish them all the best and hope that the triumph.
IP: 86.128.107.0
Trewillan

Joined: 21/02/2012

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Spanish Miners Solidarity Committee
Posted: 16/07/2012 20:43:27
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Ty Gwyn wrote:



But them that were in the industry at the time ,seem to have short memories,the Spanish Miners sent funds to help with the Strike Appeal here...


And what happened to that money?


IP: 78.145.174.236
miner1985

Joined: 17/11/2007
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Spanish Miners Solidarity Committee
Posted: 16/07/2012 21:13:44
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Try thinking of the food fund. The NUM had a bad press during and after the strike from the Tory press. Don't fall for all their lies, not everyone is as bad as a banker or politician! IP: 86.128.107.0
carnkie

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Joined: 07/09/2007
Location: camborne, cornwall

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Spanish Miners Solidarity Committee
Posted: 16/07/2012 22:14:24
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Should we support the Greeks as well given the malaise that is currently running through the EU. I would have thought we had enough problems of our own. This really has nothing to do with the Thatcher years.

--

The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there.
IP: 92.28.223.238 Edited: 16/07/2012 22:15:48 by carnkie
Ty Gwyn

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Spanish Miners Solidarity Committee
Posted: 16/07/2012 22:30:58
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The Spanish Miners supported the NUM in 84/85 with financial help,
Us that carry the same blue scars,whatever country we may be from,have the same affiliation to other Miners,

Something others outside the industry will Never understand,including the UDM.
IP: 86.154.227.18
Tamarmole

Joined: 20/05/2009
Location: Tamar Valley

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Spanish Miners Solidarity Committee
Posted: 16/07/2012 23:22:29
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Having been accused of being an old lefty more than once I can sympathise with the plight of the Spanish lads. However when it comes to international solidarity one can't help but call to mind the impact the Spanish had on our fishing industry. IP: 86.143.31.129
RJV

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Joined: 16/03/2008
Location: Cleveland

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Spanish Miners Solidarity Committee
Posted: 17/07/2012 07:07:48
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carnkie wrote:

Should we support the Greeks as well given the malaise that is currently running through the EU. I would have thought we had enough problems of our own.


Yes cos we might have to ask for help one day. Cos failing states are a breeding ground for extremism and Greece is close enough to home for such things to matter. To help maintain the EC as Europe traditionally acts like a pack of feral cats in a basket when it does not have a common purpose (see hundreds of millions worldwide dead within the living memory for reference). Cos its the decent thing to do.

Probably all sorts of other reasons too.

--

'Planning is just bad adventure.'
IP: 82.145.210.176 Edited: 17/07/2012 07:30:01 by RJV
ChrisJC

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Spanish Miners Solidarity Committee
Posted: 17/07/2012 07:52:15
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RJV wrote:

Cos its the decent thing to do.


The problem is that the world is chock full of opportunities to 'do the decent thing'.
When I prioritise such things, this particular opportunity is way down my list.

Chris.
IP: 90.152.39.96
Minegeo

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Joined: 17/06/2008
Location: Ireland

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Spanish Miners Solidarity Committee
Posted: 17/07/2012 08:09:06
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There was one person who destroyed the UK Coal Industry and that was a Mr Arthur Scargill - he can take ALL the credit.

IP: 92.251.141.166
crickleymal

Joined: 12/03/2009
Location: Gloucester

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Spanish Miners Solidarity Committee
Posted: 17/07/2012 08:52:19
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Minegeo wrote:

There was one person who destroyed the UK Coal Industry and that was a Mr Arthur Scargill - he can take ALL the credit.


Much though I dislike Arthur Scargill I don't think he can take the blame. Admittedly if he had used a secret ballot to gain a mandate for strike action then the NUM assets wouldn't have been frozen. But he did predict what the Tories were going to do to the mining industry.
IP: 82.33.242.34
Peter Burgess

Joined: 01/07/2008
Location: Merstham. Or is it Godstone ...... ?

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Spanish Miners Solidarity Committee
Posted: 17/07/2012 09:32:31
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Was Mr Scargill responsible for the massive stockpiling of coal in advance of the confrontation? He was a far more influential man than I ever thought if he was! Is he busy out in Spain sowing discontent? It would be very sad if someone's views on a long-retired union leader were to harm the support being requested for a mining community distanced from the 1980s events not only by a thousand miles but by three decades.

--

Hé ! Ki kapcsolva le a villanyt ?
IP: 94.193.19.239
miner1985

Joined: 17/11/2007
Location: South Wales

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Spanish Miners Solidarity Committee
Posted: 17/07/2012 21:21:07
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Thought I'd logged onto the ukip website for a moment. The fund is to help them live through the strike not to pay the subsides. IP: 86.128.107.0
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