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Author Wheal Harriett or Dolcoath
Knocker

Joined: 17/06/2008

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Wheal Harriett or Dolcoath
Posted: 07/10/2012 22:43:18
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I can't see a Kerrier cap ever failing - they were massive, and if it was a cap failure I expect the ground effects would be far more spectacular - although thats a nice hole!

Just trying to think what could have happened, possibilities: -

1. Area of loose ground around the edge of the cap, which may have fallen into the shaft.

2. Collapse on the shallow adit, although I doubt it would have turned into a full on hole that quick, bearing in mind the adit is going to be small, although if there is a lot of water flowing in the adit it may have washed the infalling material away.

3. Previously unknown workings, although it would beggar belief if they didn't discover it during the capping programme.

If I was a betting man I would be going with option 1, but I'm sure Agricola will let us know the verdict tomorrow!
IP: 90.221.39.42
Roy Morton

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Joined: 09/10/2007
Location: Redruth Cornwall

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Wheal Harriett or Dolcoath
Posted: 08/10/2012 02:36:27
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I was walking over the area the shaft has gone away only a week ago and there was nothing unusual (slumping) there then.
Looking at the photo its likely to be something other than Dunkin's Garden shaft, and the footway is marked by the edifice on the right of the photo, so it rules that one out.
I would expect that if it was Dunkin's Gdn it would have larger dimensions than this.
This one has dimensions like a footway shaft.
I guess we will know more after tomorrow; so interesting though.


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'Bid me discourse, I will enchant thine ear'
IP: 86.152.9.95
Knocker

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Wheal Harriett or Dolcoath
Posted: 08/10/2012 13:01:00
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I had a look at it this morning, a second hole as now opened up on the other side of the maintenance track (I expect the only reason the maintenance road is still there is that there is a layer of geomembrane under the road supporting - don't jump on it!).

In my mind it is certainly leaning more to an adit collapse now.

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Dolcoathguy

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Joined: 21/05/2008
Location: Camborne, Cornwall

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Wheal Harriett or Dolcoath
Posted: 08/10/2012 13:07:56
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The depression I noticed has fallen in!
Looking on old plans I have seen, I cannot see any indications of an adit running in this direction. But maybe some one else has more detailed plans.
The direction seems to be between the shaft and the old demolished compressor house in dolcoath avenue.
Would there have been any underground tunnel running between the two? I thought any air lines would have been on or near to the surface.
Have the recent demolition works nearby had an effect on something underground?

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Is it safe to come out of the bunker yet?
IP: 194.126.226.123 Edited: 08/10/2012 13:09:05 by Dolcoathguy
stuey

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Wheal Harriett or Dolcoath
Posted: 08/10/2012 16:56:22
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I went up there last night with my rope gear and my adjustable spanner. I had a look over the edge.

Some local wildlife turned up, but other than that, no-body batted an eyelid. Looking down the trench, the ground is appears to be largely backfilled clayey subsoil and then into fractured killas. Timbering is evident within this on the Harriet Engine side. About -20ft down the hole is blocked, the top of a palm tree is evident, along with some more timbering and what looks to be a level.

The edges of the whole are not very nice and undercut. Rigging the hole looks moderately simple after a bit of groundwork at the edge. It's not really deep enough for anything really exciting to happen. Looking at the section, there appears to be a odd shallow shaft which goes into the top of some stoping. This doesn't show the detail of the extent of the Dunkin's Garden workings.

Needless to say, someone might have a look later and tell us more.
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Dolcoathguy

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Wheal Harriett or Dolcoath
Posted: 08/10/2012 17:52:41
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What was the orientation of the level? Or too dark or collapsed to see?
After the new collapse, more fencing and signs have been put up today.


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Is it safe to come out of the bunker yet?
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scooptram

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Wheal Harriett or Dolcoath
Posted: 08/10/2012 18:21:37
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theres enough blue tape around there to make a rope for williams shaft!

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playing with tin stream works
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Tezarchaeon

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Wheal Harriett or Dolcoath
Posted: 08/10/2012 20:53:33
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This is why it is much better to leave a shaft as a shaft and not try and turn it into a park! Grilling and walling is much better than trying to sweep shafts under a green carpet. IP: 86.151.28.118
scooptram

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Wheal Harriett or Dolcoath
Posted: 08/10/2012 21:05:03
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you forgot the trap door Big Grin

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playing with tin stream works
IP: 86.130.236.139
Knocker

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Wheal Harriett or Dolcoath
Posted: 08/10/2012 21:18:28
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I gotto say I would be pretty nervous if I lived at Talveneth right now! If that is a shallow level/adit, its heading right towards them!
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Roy Morton

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Wheal Harriett or Dolcoath
Posted: 09/10/2012 02:11:32
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Knocker wrote:

I gotto say I would be pretty nervous if I lived at Talveneth right now! If that is a shallow level/adit, its heading right towards them!


Yup ! me too !

I snapped these off today, apparently the two are connected by empty space below ground.
Yapping with the locals that were gathered, one woman said she heard it go while she was indoors 200 metres away; said it sounded like thunder (Hmmmmm?) Another said she was the person to first report it to the police. She noticed the first hole when walking her dog. There was a guy there that said he had had a pony tethered to the palm tree, the one that disappeared, only the day before and the local kids were petting it. Shocked
Two police officers were there when I turned up (a couple of good guys) and I had a rabbit with them for 20 minutes. One of them said he had been walking about on the spot where the second shaft had opened up only a few hours before. I ended up giving them a potted history of the site and they were staggered at the depth of the mine and the REAL potential dangers of this sort of thing, they were also unclear about the difference between shafts and adits; another quick explanation and that was that sorted out Smartass


(click image to open full size image in new window)



(click image to open full size image in new window)



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'Bid me discourse, I will enchant thine ear'
IP: 86.152.9.19 Edited: 09/10/2012 02:20:21 by Roy Morton
Knocker

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Wheal Harriett or Dolcoath
Posted: 09/10/2012 07:05:26
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If the guy who put the first fence looks at the second picture hes probably going to feel a little queasy! IP: 90.221.39.42
Knocker

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Wheal Harriett or Dolcoath
Posted: 09/10/2012 07:12:15
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I sent a picture to the guy who owns Macsalvors crane hire yesterday, as he took one of his cranes along that track a couple of years ago to install the boiler and winding gear at Wheal Harriet.

As you say Roy there is nothing under the middle section, which is only being held up by the Terram (Geotextile) under the track!!!
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Daz

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Wheal Harriett or Dolcoath
Posted: 09/10/2012 08:06:20
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Well done Roy! Thumbs Up

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Daz
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agricola

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Wheal Harriett or Dolcoath
Posted: 09/10/2012 08:38:50
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As Knocker will state, we met in the road on the way back from visiting the area yesterday morning. When we arrrived there were several people from the 'Council' and some blokes from Cormac.

I ventured inside the ring of steel ! and viewed into both holes. I was asked how deep before I could look into the first I approached, but being a well trained explorer I wanted a rock to through down. However no rocks could be found however there was some empty pop bottles, the first of which came to hand was lobbed into the nearest hole and I listened to the sound it made. No splash. Venturing closer to the hole nearest the trees, and peering in, the ground is very undercut and much of the turf is overhanging the hole with not a lot underneath it. What you could see is that there is the remains of a tunnel about 30ft down. There are walls which have been cut / dug and lots of rubble above including bits of timber close to the surface. This probably dates from when the capping was done. There is the remains of a palm in the bottom of the hole which disappeared on Saturday.

The second hole is much like the first.

The tops of the holes are too dangerous to make a descent and there was slight movement while we were present.

Just before we left and met Knocker, some more rent-a-fence arrived and the whole area was to be fenced, while nature and the council thought what to do next.

Can those who live local to the holes keep an eye on them and report if anything else major happens.

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If it can't be grown it has to be mined.
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Dolcoathguy

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Wheal Harriett or Dolcoath
Posted: 09/10/2012 11:03:47
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Will keep on eye on it ( as well as Knocker)!
My best guess is still the shallow adit system in a position not previously well documented.
I guess the whole thing will have to be dug up and filled if not active?



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Is it safe to come out of the bunker yet?
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stuey

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Wheal Harriett or Dolcoath
Posted: 09/10/2012 12:30:28
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I had another look yesterday (along with 2 chaps) and also ventured inside the ring of steel on a rope with a bloody big torch and lots of care.

The hole on the left links up with the one on the right at about 15ft ish, where the top of a palm tree is evident.

Where solid rock is visible in both holes, it appears to dip at about 20 degrees away from the road, on the strike of the holes.

The roadside edge of the right hole is still overhung, but there is a chest of solid rock about 4ft down (as far as I could see. It would have been possible to modify the edge slightly and rig over it with a bit of carpet. As I was contemplating this, a load of stuff ran in the other hole. It is very much still on the move. My estimation is that the road side of the right hole is the safest to approach and is less likely to run, however the rest of it is ridiculously dangerous. My professional chum who was with me suggested that it was going to run even more. I was of the impression that despite the apparent dip of the structure, I could observe, the stuff had run back underneath. Perhaps it is merely wider. There are timbers evident and my estimation is that it is backfilled stoping which has run.....into what? At the moment, I am quite sure it doesn't go.

One thing is certain, it is going to be very very expensive to fix. Another very odd thing is, considering the pretty recent shaft capping programme there, how on earth did they miss it?
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Tezarchaeon

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Wheal Harriett or Dolcoath
Posted: 09/10/2012 14:17:15
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I recall that the photograph of Dunkin's Garden shaft being capped in Mr. Buckley's Dolcoath book showed a small tunnel leading off the shaft at a similar depth to the tunnel described in this thread. IP: 86.151.28.118
stuey

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Wheal Harriett or Dolcoath
Posted: 09/10/2012 17:26:40
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Sadly, what will probably happen is that they will excavate a bloody great big hole, put some beams in and fill with more C30 than you can imagine. This will probably happen in a very short timescale due to the local wildlife.

One of the local maids (who was quite a character) explained how she had shimmyed up to the hole to have a peer in. It is one hell of an area to have a hole collapse in.

I imagine the local pub is absolutely mental.
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Dolcoathguy

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Wheal Harriett or Dolcoath
Posted: 09/10/2012 18:20:27
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Dunkin's shaft was part of a group of mines already in existence which were merged to form Dolcoath, so would contain lots of 17th and 18th century works near the surface (including the shallow tunnel system) there also would have been an area underground for the waterwheels. What is hard to find out is how this would have been modified with later more "modern" works.
I will try to be there when they dig the whole thing up to get some photos (along with several others I suspect). Maybe then we will get a better idea what has happened and why.
If some stoping has fallen away, was it supported by old timbers further down ?


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Is it safe to come out of the bunker yet?
IP: 194.126.226.123
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