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Author NCB oil lamp flame guide on Ebay.
Morlock

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Joined: 31/07/2008

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NCB oil lamp flame guide on Ebay.
Posted: 30/11/2011 02:46:04
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May be of interest to the Davy lamp users?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/national-coal-board-miners-lamp-ncb-/270861285913?pt=UK_Collectables_Memorabila_RL&hash=item3f10973a19
IP: 82.31.29.199
Boy Engineer

Joined: 20/06/2008
Location: Derby

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NCB oil lamp flame guide on Ebay.
Posted: 30/11/2011 08:05:54
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Well that's answered the "What do I get her for Christmas" conundrum. Glad I didn't buy the Black Avalanche book at the weekend. IP: 2.24.140.233
Morlock

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Joined: 31/07/2008

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NCB oil lamp flame guide on Ebay.
Posted: 30/11/2011 15:05:30
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Laugh Laugh Laugh IP: 86.31.2.112
mistericeman

Joined: 04/10/2009
Location: Ashton-under-Lyne (Manchester)

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NCB oil lamp flame guide on Ebay.
Posted: 30/11/2011 18:15:07
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Nice to see ....
I bought one of those as well as some other NCB stuff along with volumes 1/2 Deputies manuals embossed with Ayle colliery in the front page,when me and the Mrs were up in Alston earlier in the year.
We even took a drive up to the colliery site to have a look .
Nice bit of local history .
IP: 92.40.254.110
Morlock

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Joined: 31/07/2008

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NCB oil lamp flame guide on Ebay.
Posted: 30/11/2011 18:23:02
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Managed to pick this up when the local pit shut, lots of handy info.
Also managed to get two NR stretchers and charging rack for SWCRO (as named then).



IP: 86.23.50.198
rikj

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Joined: 27/12/2008

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NCB oil lamp flame guide on Ebay.
Posted: 01/12/2011 13:41:51
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Scan of the flame shapes for reference. Kindly given to me by Kev/market man.



(click image to open full size image in new window)





--

sanitas per evolo
IP: 81.147.164.194 Edited: 01/12/2011 13:58:14 by rikj
Boy Engineer

Joined: 20/06/2008
Location: Derby

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NCB oil lamp flame guide on Ebay.
Posted: 01/12/2011 14:01:09
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That scan has potentially ruined the surprise. I hope my wife isn't watching the thread. IP: 80.177.35.242
rhychydwr

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Joined: 09/06/2007
Location: Cwmparc, Rhondda, South Wales, UK.

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NCB oil lamp flame guide on Ebay.
Posted: 01/12/2011 15:39:03
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DELETE EXPLETIVE sold for £12.50

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Cutting coal in my spare time.
IP: 82.71.20.254
Morlock

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NCB oil lamp flame guide on Ebay.
Posted: 01/12/2011 16:07:16
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Boy Engineer wrote:

That scan has potentially ruined the surprise. I hope my wife isn't watching the thread.


Add a butane lighter to the gift so she can play with flame caps.
IP: 82.26.217.18
rhychydwr

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Joined: 09/06/2007
Location: Cwmparc, Rhondda, South Wales, UK.

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NCB oil lamp flame guide on Ebay.
Posted: 01/12/2011 16:12:03
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Does anyone know off hand, what is the minimum percentage of methane in air that will explode? Also at what percentage will it just burn?

Will save me from experimenting.


--

Cutting coal in my spare time.
IP: 82.71.20.254
owd git

Joined: 07/02/2010

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NCB oil lamp flame guide on Ebay.
Posted: 01/12/2011 17:03:12
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put it on u tube; start at 14% and increase @ 5% intervals Laugh

O.G.
IP: 2.103.80.121
rufenig

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Joined: 18/03/2008
Location: Shropshire Hills

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NCB oil lamp flame guide on Ebay.
Posted: 01/12/2011 17:17:10
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Google is your friend!!!!!!! Smartass Smartass Smartass

Lower Explosive Limit

Lower Explosive Limit (LEL): The lowest concentration (percentage) of a gas or a vapor in air capable of producing a flash of fire in presence of an ignition source (arc, flame, heat). At a concentration in air below the LEL there is not enough fuel to continue an explosion. Concentrations lower than the LEL are "too lean" to explode but may still deflagrate. Methane gas has a LEL of 4.4% (at 138 degrees C) by volume, meaning 4.4% of the total volume of the air consists of methane. At 20 degrees C the LEL is 5.1 % by volume. If the atmosphere has less than 5.1% methane, an explosion cannot occur even if a source of ignition is present. When methane (CH4) concentration reaches 5.1% an explosion can occur if there is an ignition source. LEL concentrations vary greatly between combustible gases.

Percentage reading on combustible air monitors should not be confused with the LEL concentrations. Explosimeters designed and calibrated to a specific gas may show the relative concentration of the atmosphere to the LEL - the LEL being 100%. A 5% displayed LEL reading for methane, for example, would be equivalent to 5.1% multiplied by 5%, or approximately 0.25% methane by volume at 20 degrees C. Control of the explosion hazard is usually achieved by sufficient natural or mechanical ventilation, to limit the concentration of flammable gases or vapors to a maximum level of 25% of their Lower Explosive or Flammable Limit.
[edit] Upper Explosive Limit

Upper Explosive Limit (UEL): Highest concentration (percentage) of a gas or a vapor in air capable of producing a flash of fire in presence of an ignition source (arc, flame, heat). Concentration higher than UFL or UEL are "too rich" to burn.
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Morlock

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NCB oil lamp flame guide on Ebay.
Posted: 01/12/2011 17:33:54
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Not quite that simple in non-standard air mixes. Smartass





IP: 82.26.210.7
Phil Ford

Joined: 01/05/2008
Location: Caernarfon

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NCB oil lamp flame guide on Ebay.
Posted: 01/12/2011 20:18:12
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Explosive range of Methane CH4 is 5 to 15 % IP: 81.156.100.191
staffordshirechina

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Joined: 15/11/2009
Location: North Staffordshire

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NCB oil lamp flame guide on Ebay.
Posted: 02/12/2011 09:48:56
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As Phil says, standard NCB teaching is 5 - 15%.

The problem with saying it only burns above 15% is that when the burning reduces the mix down to 15% it may then explode.

Wasn't there an experiment at school in chemistry where you fill a tin with gas, light the gas via a small hole in the top of the tin lid. When the gas remaining dilutes down to 15% - bang and the lid flies off>
IP: 95.148.25.206
Morlock

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NCB oil lamp flame guide on Ebay.
Posted: 02/12/2011 14:29:07
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staffordshirechina wrote:

As Phil says, standard NCB teaching is 5 - 15%.



Looking at the books distribution list, (and its technical content) it appears to be targeted at persons who require an insight above 'standard'?
IP: 86.23.27.155
staffordshirechina

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NCB oil lamp flame guide on Ebay.
Posted: 02/12/2011 15:55:16
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Standard teaching refers more to the Ebay item than your book.
Looking at the distribution list, I bet very few of those on the list ever even opened that book.
Probably only the ventilation officers just before they went for a job interview!
IP: 95.148.24.174
Morlock

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NCB oil lamp flame guide on Ebay.
Posted: 02/12/2011 16:00:12
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staffordshirechina wrote:

Standard teaching refers more to the Ebay item than your book.
Looking at the distribution list, I bet very few of those on the list ever even opened that book.
Probably only the ventilation officers just before they went for a job interview!


I think you are correct on all points, specially the last one Big Grin
IP: 86.23.47.226
Buckhill

Joined: 08/04/2008

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NCB oil lamp flame guide on Ebay.
Posted: 02/12/2011 17:02:20
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And of course there is also the effect of pressure.

Firedamp/methane under pressure can be explosive at from 2 to 76% by volume, e.g when compressed by shotfiring. A seemingly safe "low" concentration could ignite at a break in a shot hole and spread elsewhere - something else not usually explained in general NCB training.
IP: 81.155.96.224
Morlock

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NCB oil lamp flame guide on Ebay.
Posted: 02/12/2011 17:17:49
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A NCB Deputy told me about the hole break detector thingy, he seemed to imply that its use was not routine when firing in coal? IP: 86.27.2.219
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