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Mine Exploration Forum

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Author Book Con!
JohnnearCfon

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Joined: 22/12/2005
Location: Sir Caernarfon

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Book Con!
Posted: 22/07/2010 21:56:59
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Just to warn people of what I would call a con!

I did a search on ABEbooks for cwtybugail and came up with a print on demand book. It covered several other welsh slate quarries too. I also found the same book listed on Amazon.

Naturally I ordered the book.

I was somewhat shocked when it arrived to find all it contained was pages copied from Wikipedia! There were no images, only links quoted to pages on their website.

Needless to say I complained! In it I mentioned that I had contributed to some of the pages myself. They did agree to give me a refund if I sent the book back, which I did. Refund received.

The best bit was part of their reply:-

"The book is a print on demand copy of what is an out of copyright title. Meaning the book has been digitalised and it's content is in the public domain as no copyright laws apply, Wikipedia have simply quoted text from the digitalised information."

Now that is a blatant lie, obviously they didn't read the bit about me having contributed to it!!

I noticed just now, they are listing a book dealing with German and Welsh slate quarries too!

Just thought I would alert others to this scam. Some print on demand books are digital reprints of old books, not this one (and presumably others too) though!
IP: 92.26.186.88 Edited: 22/07/2010 23:14:43 by JohnnearCfon
Graigfawr

Joined: 04/11/2009

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Book Con!
Posted: 22/07/2010 22:53:22
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There has been a recent spate of such 'books' appearing on online bookselling sites. They comprise text harvested from online sources, apparently by robot. As no copies are printed until an order is placed (and paid for in advance) there are no overheads except for the cost iof online listing - and there are bulk discounts when large numbers of such titles are listed. Search for any place-name and you'll find such a 'book', or even more than one, listed. And they aren't cheap either. Worse, various online booksellers are starting to list these books amongst their 'stock' (which doesn't yet exist of course) so it can become difficult to tell bogus titles of this nature from genuine books. Essentiaally its a scam. Be cautious out there on t'web folks! IP: 92.26.66.90
derrickman

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Book Con!
Posted: 23/07/2010 03:32:17
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I've seen obsolete and third-party technical literature repackaged in this fashion. It's a particular problem with enthusiast vehicles such as Jeep which combine high OEM costs, deliberate obstruction of owner servicing by the factory and a long history of inter-related models with very long service lives, resulting in a huge quantity "public domain" and owner-published material being available

I believe the way that it works is that the vendor website contains a link or links to one or more search robots, type in virtually any name under the sun and you soon have a search result of unedited, unsorted copy which is then automatically scanned for duplication, "edited" to a specified length and bingo, instant "book" which is then printed and despatched against a pre-paid order

amazon are one stage removed, in that they simply list what other vendors offer with little or no attempt to ascertain what they are actually selling. I don't know if it is still the case, but certainly at one time if amazon recognised you as a vendor they dealt with, it was possible to enter a string of random letters and numbers as a "listed title"
IP: 212.58.194.50 Edited: 23/07/2010 03:38:35 by derrickman
Phil Ford

Joined: 01/05/2008
Location: Caernarfon

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Book Con!
Posted: 23/07/2010 08:28:02
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LLC Books are doing the same trick. I am looking at collieries in Flintshire. the book that LLC is selling Coalmines In Wales is nearly all straight off the internet, no new info. Thumb Down IP: 213.123.2.103
Moorebooks

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Joined: 28/11/2007
Location: Newport, Shropshire

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Book Con!
Posted: 23/07/2010 08:46:38
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Graigfawr wrote:

. Worse, various online booksellers are starting to list these books amongst their 'stock' (which doesn't yet exist of course) so it can become difficult to tell bogus titles of this nature from genuine books. !


I guarantee one web based bookseller who will never go along this route, I also promise never to plagarise articles or journals but I do nick book reviews (although I usually try to acknowledge).

When buying collections and rare books like all I use internet resources to find out information - it is amazing how many older titles are available via print on demand but there is nothing like the real thing.

Mike
[web link]
IP: 92.42.56.244 Edited: 23/07/2010 09:12:18 by Moorebooks
Peter Burgess

Joined: 01/07/2008
Location: Merstham. Or is it Godstone ...... ?

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Book Con!
Posted: 23/07/2010 09:09:11
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I just searched ABE for cwt y bugail and think I found the "book" in question. The description is

Brand New Book with Free Worldwide Delivery ***** Print on Demand *****. Bookseller Inventory # AAV9781155493503

Maybe this is the warning sign: no specific description offered! A bit like buying a sandwich from a shop in a packet that just says "sandwich" on the outside, but no clue on what's actually inside!



--

Hé ! Ki kapcsolva le a villanyt ?
IP: 81.144.191.248
AndyC

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Book Con!
Posted: 23/07/2010 09:21:39
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Blimey - I had not heard of this scam.

What is truly appalling is that it is double theft. To the vendor - the material will not be in a state that makes the book fit for purpose.

And then there are the authors of this text that are being robbed. I have yet to hear of someone claiming to sell intellectual content that is 'in the public domain' when that is the case - all eamples I have seen have been attempting to cover what is a clear case of breach of copyright.

Strange - only last night I dreamt I was trying to explain to someone how complicated copyright law is.

--

The nurses are stealing my underwear
IP: 62.171.194.20
Peter Burgess

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Book Con!
Posted: 23/07/2010 10:11:32
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The "book" appears on ABE many times. Another "description" is:

Format: Other. Brand New, Perfect Condition. We Ship From Our Fulfillment Centers in the US, Canada, Europe, and Japan. Bookseller Inventory # ISBN1155493508

Once again, a standard piece of text with no substance. I would be very wary of buying anything that had no real description or an image of the cover.



--

Hé ! Ki kapcsolva le a villanyt ?
IP: 81.144.191.248 Edited: 23/07/2010 10:12:19 by Peter Burgess
ttxela

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Location: Cambs

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Book Con!
Posted: 23/07/2010 12:52:18
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Peter Burgess wrote:

The "book" appears on ABE many times. Another "description" is:

Format: Other. Brand New, Perfect Condition. We Ship From Our Fulfillment Centers in the US, Canada, Europe, and Japan. Bookseller Inventory # ISBN1155493508

Once again, a standard piece of text with no substance. I would be very wary of buying anything that had no real description or an image of the cover.



How would such a book get an ISBN number? I have no idea how ISBN numbers work but would have assumed if it had the number it was a "proper" book?
IP: 91.143.75.2
JohnnearCfon

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Book Con!
Posted: 23/07/2010 12:57:49
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Mine was published by LLC. Having just checked, there are 8 sellers on abebooks listing that same book. I hadn't noticed it had an ISBN, but yes it has. IP: 78.150.245.60
JohnnearCfon

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Posted: 23/07/2010 13:10:32
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I have just emailed most of the sellers on Abebooks regarding that book. Will be interesting to see what (if any) replies I get! IP: 78.150.245.60
Peter Burgess

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Posted: 23/07/2010 13:11:50
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ISBNs only require a payment to the appropriate agency. They are allocated in blocks to publishers.

--

Hé ! Ki kapcsolva le a villanyt ?
IP: 81.144.191.248
stuey

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Book Con!
Posted: 23/07/2010 13:21:15
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I want this one:-

http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?bt.x=0&bt.y=0&kn=geology+truro+falmouth&sts=t

and I smell a rat.

I'd like to see it in a shop for real, even if it was £35
IP: 87.115.163.171
JohnnearCfon

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Book Con!
Posted: 23/07/2010 14:56:32
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Much to my suprise I have got quite a positive reply to two of the emails. One goes as far as to say:-

I'm looking into getting these blocked, we order all print on demand books through a wholesaler so we're slowly identifying the ISBN prefix's they're using so we won't be offering them any more. It's a disgusting practice of no use to anybody.

The other asked for a bit more info so they could look into it further.
IP: 78.150.245.60
Tamarmole

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Location: Tamar Valley

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Posted: 23/07/2010 19:18:58
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ISBNs - I bought a block of 10 numbers in 2003 for £70 - simple, no questions asked IP: 86.148.14.98
Peter Burgess

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Posted: 23/07/2010 19:48:48
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Back to the original post - didn't you think it odd that the website doesn't tell you who the author is? Most of the genuine books listed have an author, editor or compiler. Something else to trigger warning bells!

--

Hé ! Ki kapcsolva le a villanyt ?
IP: 92.4.25.87
JohnnearCfon

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Posted: 23/07/2010 19:52:44
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Yes, I have noticed that since buying one! Always easy to be wise after the event! At least I got a full refund (including P&P), although I am still slightly out of pocket due to the return postage. IP: 78.150.252.92
Peter Burgess

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Posted: 23/07/2010 20:36:06
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You can have the quiet satisfaction of knowing that when it arrives, they will have the inconvenience of disposing of it.

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Hé ! Ki kapcsolva le a villanyt ?
IP: 92.4.25.87
derrickman

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Posted: 23/07/2010 20:46:42
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or selling it to the next mug / optimist / enthusiast / non-member of this forum ( delete as not applicable )... IP: 212.58.194.50 Edited: 23/07/2010 20:48:14 by derrickman
stuey

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Posted: 30/07/2010 14:49:08
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I've just ordered "Geology of Truro/Falmouth w mining district" and "Observations of the Richer Parts of Cornish Mineral lodes" which appear to be print on demand jobbies.

You never know what you might get. As long as I can read it and appreciate the diagrams, it should be Ok.
IP: 87.112.46.241
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