Mine exploration, photographs and mining history for mine explorers, industrial archaeologists, researchers and historians Mine explorer and mining history videos on YouTube Connect with other mine explorers on Facebook
Tip: do not include 'mine' or 'quarry', search by name e.g. 'cwmorthin', use 'Sounds like search' if unsure of spelling

Advanced Search
'Sounds like search'
Quick a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z
Tip: narrow down your search by typing more than one word and selecting 'Search for all words' or 'Exact search'

Search for any word
Search for all words
Exact search
Tip: narrow down your search by typing more than one word and selecting 'Search for all words' or 'Exact search'

Search for any word
Search for all words
Exact search

Mine Exploration Forum

Author Jerry M - a Blondin and a Dinorwig engine
Vanoord

Avatar of Vanoord

Joined: 28/11/2005
Location: North Wales

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Jerry M - a Blondin and a Dinorwig engine
Posted: 12/09/2007 17:37:04
Reply |  Quote
More a question about the caption than the picture!



(click image to open full size image in new window)

Grahami's caption:
A view from Red Lion across Princess May balance headgear (Now entirely surrounded by waste tips) over the remains of a blondin headgear (JerryM in Penrhyn parlance) to the work going on on the edge of the main quarry.

Now then... I know that Blondins are named after a French tightrope walker.

Jerry M was the name of one of the Dinorwig quarry locos, named after one of Sir Charles Assheton-Smith's horses, as was the tradition when a major horse race was won. Jerry M won the Grand National in 1912, ridden by Ernie Piggot, later to become the father of Lester Piggott.

Here's a pic of Jerry M at Dinorwig linked from Wikimedia. Jerry M (originally Vaenol) is now in the Hollycombe Steam Collection in Hampshire, where it's been since it was purchased in 1967 when the quarry closed (wonderful thing Wikipedia Wink ).



And here's one taken this year:



Given the strong connection of the name Jerry M with the Dinorwig quarry, I'm a little confused as to why Penrhyn would also use the name when they were presumably the most significant rival to Dinorwig?


--

Filling space until a new signature comes along...
IP: 81.130.187.225 Edited: 12/09/2007 17:39:40 by Vanoord
JohnnearCfon

Avatar of JohnnearCfon

Joined: 22/12/2005
Location: Sir Caernarfon

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Jerry M - a Blondin and a Dinorwig engine
Posted: 12/09/2007 19:48:02
Reply |  Quote
I wonder if "Jerry M" (the racehorse that is) was named after something (or someone) and the horse name which was the origin of the Dinorwic Hunslet name was one line of descent, and maybe "Jerry M" at Penrhyn was a descendent (so to speak) from the original rather than the racehorse. I hope all that makes some kind of sense!

Nice photo of Jerry M since it has been restored in Maroon. Tha's the first one I have seen of it. I never did like that pale blue!
IP: 89.240.213.91
Wyn

Avatar of Wyn

Joined: 06/06/2007
Location: North Wales

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Jerry M - a Blondin and a Dinorwig engine
Posted: 14/09/2007 08:45:03
Reply |  Quote
If anyone has access to the booklet about the Penrhyn Narrow Guage Line (Lein Bach) will see the photo's of the Blondins, which are refered to as "Jerry M's". They are a different design to those in Dinowig. There is also agreat photo of this with the water balance in a Cadw booklet. I would like to upload them, but I'm not sure on the copyright issues, can anyone comment?

Incidentally, I remember going down with my family to watch the last engine travel the line........that dates me.
IP: 217.155.53.153
Vanoord

Avatar of Vanoord

Joined: 28/11/2005
Location: North Wales

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Jerry M - a Blondin and a Dinorwig engine
Posted: 14/09/2007 09:34:41
Reply |  Quote
Wyn wrote:

Incidentally, I remember going down with my family to watch the last engine travel the line........that dates me.


The Penrhyn line? I don't know a lot about that - there seems to be a wealth of information on the Dinorwig quarries but very little on the other side of the mountain.

One thing that springs to mind is how unique the Dinorwig "main line" down to Felinheli was - and what a shame that none of the locos survived. Obviously Fire Queen is still inexistence, but there are none of the later ones which worked up until closure.
IP: 81.130.187.225
grahami

Avatar of grahami

Joined: 29/01/2007
Location: Telford, Shropshire

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Jerry M - a Blondin and a Dinorwig engine
Posted: 14/09/2007 09:48:41
Reply |  Quote
There were at least two types of blondins used at Penrhyn - the horizontal ones of Henderson type - pics of which I've uploaded, and also some steeply inclined ones whose carriages look very similar to the Dinorwig ones. These lifted waste from the horizontal blondin landings to a higher floor for disposal.

I'll upload a map extract if I can dig it out.

Graham

--

The map is the territory - especially in chain scale.
IP: 212.219.117.104
merddinemrys

Avatar of merddinemrys

Joined: 13/03/2006
Location: Barmouth

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Jerry M - a Blondin and a Dinorwig engine
Posted: 14/09/2007 10:09:10
Reply |  Quote
Vanoord wrote:

The Penrhyn line? I don't know a lot about that - there seems to be a wealth of information on the Dinorwig quarries but very little on the other side of the mountain.


The Penrhyn's line was quite impressive and full of character. It ran from the Quarry to the port at Port Penrhyn. All three of the locomotives built to work the main line - Charles is in Penrhyn Castle and the other two are on the Festiniog Railway although they have been modified extensively!

Boyd has a good book on the Penrhyn in his Narrow Gauge in North Carnarvonshire series - you're welcome to borrow it Vanoord.

--

Merddinemrys
IP: 81.140.69.197
Gwyn

Avatar of Gwyn

Joined: 23/10/2007
Location: Bethesda.

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Jerry M - a Blondin and a Dinorwig engine
Posted: 04/08/2009 16:26:16
Reply |  Quote
Here's a "blast from the past"!
Jerry M was a very successful steeplechaser winning 14 out of 20 races.
However, he was not a show ring horse and suffered from:- "sway back"- a long, dipped, potentially weak spine. This is a conformation fault.
"ewe neck"- a conformation fault that causes the neck to bend upwards instead of down in the normal arch. "Stargazing" is an extreme example.
"roaring"- the making of abnormal sounds when being exercised. Also known as Laryngeal Hemiplegia, in this case, probably the left, recurrent laryngeal nerve.
Despite these issues he was known to jump like a stag and indeed cleared 40' on the water jump at Aintree.
Thus, I suspect that it's a form of ambiguous, backhanded compliment.
IP: 92.10.182.33
grahami

Avatar of grahami

Joined: 29/01/2007
Location: Telford, Shropshire

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Jerry M - a Blondin and a Dinorwig engine
Posted: 04/08/2009 16:55:48
Reply |  Quote
Gwyn wrote:

Here's a "blast from the past"!
Jerry M was a very successful steeplechaser winning 14 out of 20 races.
However, he was not a show ring horse and suffered from:- "sway back"- a long, dipped, potentially weak spine. This is a conformation fault.
"ewe neck"- a conformation fault that causes the neck to bend upwards instead of down in the normal arch. "Stargazing" is an extreme example.
"roaring"- the making of abnormal sounds when being exercised. Also known as Laryngeal Hemiplegia, in this case, probably the left, recurrent laryngeal nerve.
Despite these issues he was known to jump like a stag and indeed cleared 40' on the water jump at Aintree.
Thus, I suspect that it's a form of ambiguous, backhanded compliment.


Maybe the catenary of the blondin and the movement of the carriages along it reminded someone of the horse's back. ?

Grahami

--

The map is the territory - especially in chain scale.
IP: 212.219.117.101
Penrhynman

Joined: 04/03/2008

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Jerry M - a Blondin and a Dinorwig engine
Posted: 05/08/2009 09:55:58
Reply |  Quote
Wyn wrote:

If anyone has access to the booklet about the Penrhyn Narrow Guage Line (Lein Bach)


Which booklet would that be, Wyn? I have a fairly extensive collection of Penrhyn books but your description doesn't bring one to mind?

Penrhynman
IP: 86.157.92.14
Penrhynman

Joined: 04/03/2008

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Jerry M - a Blondin and a Dinorwig engine
Posted: 05/08/2009 10:04:10
Reply |  Quote
Vanoord wrote:

The Penrhyn line? I don't know a lot about that - there seems to be a wealth of information on the Dinorwig quarries but very little on the other side of the mountain.


The info is about but not a great deal has been published. A bibliography is about but a recent version isn't currently available on the internet. Boyd's book is the best single source. Much previously hidden info and articles published over the years are being republished in the Penrhyn Railway Society's journal,
Y Llechen/The Slate.

There is an active scheme to reopen at least part of the Penrhyn Railway and make known its history and that of the quarry and the workers. It's early days but it will happen.

See [web link] for the latest news that can be made public.

Penrhynman
IP: 86.157.92.14
Digit

Avatar of Digit

Joined: 29/07/2009
Location: North Wales

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Jerry M - a Blondin and a Dinorwig engine
Posted: 05/08/2009 12:58:21
Reply |  Quote
There is also a very nice little book that was published in 1972 by the Welsh Highland Light Railway (1964) Ltd. The Penrhyn Railway written by Charles E Lee cost (at the time) 50p. 38 pages, 31 pictures (usually 2 to a page) mainly photos of the engines.

Its actually based on the relevant sections of "Narrow-Gauge Railways in North Wales" by the same author but long out of print in 1972. Its a lot quicker and easier to read than Boyd and contains all most people would want to know. The WHR(P) people in Portmadog may still be selling it, probably more than 50p though.

One interesting thing, on the acknowledgements page after the photo credits it says:-
Copies of their photographs may be obtained from the following at their usual rates:-
Real Photographs Ltd., 69 Stanley Road, Broadstairs, Kent
Locomotive and General Railway Photographs, Trepentwise, West Pentire, Crantock, Nr. Newquay, Cornwall.

Now that is both helpfull and rare.

--

If you keep your eyes open you may see something interesting. If you don't something interesting will find you.
IP: 81.178.3.180
Penrhynman

Joined: 04/03/2008

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Jerry M - a Blondin and a Dinorwig engine
Posted: 05/08/2009 14:03:46
Reply |  Quote
Thanks for the info on the book. So, it's that one! Copies are frequently available on eBay.
Charles Lee also had published a couple of articles on very similar lines in Railway Magazine in 1945. I really must compare all 3 to find out how similar they are.

Last time I investigated Real Photographs Ltd, I couldn't find them, unfortunately.

The L&GRP collection is not at the NRM as part of the Search Engine. Permission to reproduce them is freely given.

Penrhynman

IP: 91.104.101.98
Digit

Avatar of Digit

Joined: 29/07/2009
Location: North Wales

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Jerry M - a Blondin and a Dinorwig engine
Posted: 05/08/2009 14:09:41
Reply |  Quote
If you are going looking for one I probably should have said it has no ISBN number and was printed locally in Bangor by the Sackville Road Printers.

--

If you keep your eyes open you may see something interesting. If you don't something interesting will find you.
IP: 81.178.3.180
JohnnearCfon

Avatar of JohnnearCfon

Joined: 22/12/2005
Location: Sir Caernarfon

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Jerry M - a Blondin and a Dinorwig engine
Posted: 05/08/2009 17:58:50
Reply |  Quote
Penrhynman wrote:

Thanks for the info on the book. So, it's that one! Copies are frequently available on eBay.
Charles Lee also had published a couple of articles on very similar lines in Railway Magazine in 1945. I really must compare all 3 to find out how similar they are.

Last time I investigated Real Photographs Ltd, I couldn't find them, unfortunately.

The L&GRP collection is not at the NRM as part of the Search Engine. Permission to reproduce them is freely given.

Penrhynman



I think Real Photographs Ltd becam part of the "Black Hole of Shepperton" i. e. Ian Allan Ltd. They were supposed to be transferring the collection to the NRM but don't know if that ever happened.

I think the booklet Wyn referred to earlier in the thread was the one published locally called "The Little Penrhyn Railway", there was also a Welsh Language version published. There are some really interesting photos in there unfortunately the printing process was not of the best quality and some of the photos appear very indistinct.

--

Cadwch Cymru'n daclus-Taflwch eich ysbwriel yn LLoeger
IP: 84.13.32.100
Gwyn

Avatar of Gwyn

Joined: 23/10/2007
Location: Bethesda.

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Jerry M - a Blondin and a Dinorwig engine
Posted: 05/08/2009 18:41:13
Reply |  Quote
Penrhynman wrote:

Vanoord wrote:

The Penrhyn line? I don't know a lot about that - there seems to be a wealth of information on the Dinorwig quarries but very little on the other side of the mountain.


The info is about but not a great deal has been published. A bibliography is about but a recent version isn't currently available on the internet. Boyd's book is the best single source. Much previously hidden info and articles published over the years are being republished in the Penrhyn Railway Society's journal,
Y Llechen/The Slate.

There is an active scheme to reopen at least part of the Penrhyn Railway and make known its history and that of the quarry and the workers. It's early days but it will happen.

See [web link] for the latest news that can be made public.

Penrhynman


The link doesn't seem to work, Penrhynman. Thumb Up
IP: 92.10.182.33
Wyn

Avatar of Wyn

Joined: 06/06/2007
Location: North Wales

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Jerry M - a Blondin and a Dinorwig engine
Posted: 06/08/2009 08:27:50
Reply |  Quote
JohnnearCfon wrote:
I think the booklet Wyn referred to earlier in the thread was the one published locally called "The Little Penrhyn Railway"
That's the one! Written by J K Jones. ISBN 0905775 21X. Published by Cyhoeddiadau Mei (Groeslon).
Published in 1980 for the princely sum of £1.50, it has about 54 pages, lots of loco photos as you would expect, but a few quarry photos, including one of the aerial ropeways.
Incidentally one of my brothers has some photos of his father in law working on the line in the thirties...if he could only find them.
IP: 86.132.148.233
JohnnearCfon

Avatar of JohnnearCfon

Joined: 22/12/2005
Location: Sir Caernarfon

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Jerry M - a Blondin and a Dinorwig engine
Posted: 06/08/2009 12:24:44
Reply |  Quote
You need to apply some thumbscrews (not necessarily to his thumbs) to make him find them!

--

Cadwch Cymru'n daclus-Taflwch eich ysbwriel yn LLoeger
IP: 78.145.46.192
Penrhynman

Joined: 04/03/2008

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Jerry M - a Blondin and a Dinorwig engine
Posted: 06/08/2009 12:28:41
Reply |  Quote
Wyn wrote:


That's the one! Written by J K Jones. ISBN 0905775 21X. Published by Cyhoeddiadau Mei (Groeslon).
Published in 1980 for the princely sum of £1.50, it has about 54 pages, lots of loco photos as you would expect, but a few quarry photos, including one of the aerial ropeways.
Incidentally one of my brothers has some photos of his father in law working on the line in the thirties...if he could only find them.


Copies are available from about £5 to £15 (English version, green cover), with the Welsh version (blue cover) being somewhat rarer.

In a way, it's a frustrating book as the photographs aren't credited Shocked So, they are difficult to trace to get decent copies. I do recognise some as they do appear in other books. The one of the Penrhyn Tramway trackbed at Llandegai, for example, is also in Susan Turner's book on the Padarn & Penrhyn Railways.

If your brother finds the photos of his father-in-law working on the line, do please send me a PM as there are many people who would love to see them.

Penrhynman
IP: 86.157.92.14
Safety LED Miners Caplamps Moore Books: Specialist Books I.A. Recordings: Mining and Industrial History DVDs Starless River - Caving Store Explore a Disused Welsh Slate Mine
Disclaimer: Mine exploring can be quite dangerous, but then again it can be alright, it all depends on the weather. Please read the proper disclaimer.
© 2005 to 2015 AditNow.co.uk
Top of Page