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Mine Exploration Forum

Author Broadgate Pump House for sale.
stuey

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Joined: 15/08/2007

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Broadgate Pump House for sale.
Posted: 10/08/2009 16:35:04
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http://details.vebra.com/property/2948/18259052

Broadgate's Engine house.

Stack very recently lost it's brickwork.
Shaft open and choked with a huge amount of rubbish.
Stonework in a pretty terrible state.

£200k.

Someone will hopefully save it though.

Thumb Up
IP: 87.113.30.26 Edited: 10/08/2009 16:36:50 by stuey
SimonRL

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Joined: 27/11/2005
Location: North Wales

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Broadgate Pump House for sale.
Posted: 10/08/2009 16:37:14
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It says it's got 3 bedrooms. Is that estate agent speak or do they mean it could have 3 bedrooms Laugh IP: 83.148.135.213
stuey

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Broadgate Pump House for sale.
Posted: 10/08/2009 16:49:01
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Comparing with Trencrom Pump/Stamps house, if I was looking at that place seriously, I'd be very concerned about how much it would cost to haul all of the crap out of the shaft and cap it properly, in order to stop the bob wall trying to make it's way south.

From when I looked at it last, I'd say it was a very serious project indeed. I think the final cost could be huge.
IP: 87.113.30.26 Edited: 10/08/2009 16:52:46 by stuey
ICLOK

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Joined: 19/02/2008
Location: Ripley, Derbyshire up North.

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Broadgate Pump House for sale.
Posted: 10/08/2009 20:42:14
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This is also the second attempt at flogging it... the first time at auction it did not get a single bid oddly..... for the exact reasons Stuey came up with according to my friend Steve who attended... 11 years ago I had a real good look at it and wasn't to clever even though at a distance it looked great, so I can believe it must be trashed now!!



--

Never get out of the boat. Absolutely goddamn right. Unless you were goin' all the way..
IP: 78.145.202.31
Tezarchaeon

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Joined: 14/08/2008

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Broadgate Pump House for sale.
Posted: 10/08/2009 23:27:27
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They should half that asking price. I would cost at least £100,000 just to sort the place out.

It's a shame it lost it's stack and roof, it was one hell of a blast from the past in it's former state before they collapsed.
IP: 81.77.244.166
ICLOK

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Location: Ripley, Derbyshire up North.

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Broadgate Pump House for sale.
Posted: 10/08/2009 23:59:41
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Was certainly one of my favourites... was gutted after stack top went...

--

Never get out of the boat. Absolutely goddamn right. Unless you were goin' all the way..
IP: 78.145.202.31
derrickman

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Joined: 18/02/2009

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Broadgate Pump House for sale.
Posted: 11/08/2009 08:32:44
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no, it means it has Planning Permission to construct a 3-bed house incorporating the structure. Depending on what the local authorities will accept, this can mean a more-or-less new house abutting the engine house.

various other issues here... the buyer will need to pay for the construction and ongoing maintenance of a hardcore access track; be prepared for ongoing problems with this if you don't take up the options to buy the additional parcels of land, is the way I read this. I don't know Cornish land prices in that much detail, but I bet those extra parcels aren't cheap.

you will also have the issues of paying for and agreeing access for, the laying of services. Phone, water, power....

structural problems could be severe. Capping the shaft won't be cheap.

back in the 70s, engine houses were often seen as a nuisance to be demolished or allowed to become unstable if possible.
IP: 149.254.56.63
stuey

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Broadgate Pump House for sale.
Posted: 11/08/2009 09:47:56
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Some of the chaps on here have consolidated houses and done an admirable job. It would be interesting to know a rough sort of time and cost to get the job done. I'm guessing at around £150k. I've heard some silly numbers mentioned for shaft capping. It's also a total unknown.

I doubt you could sell it to meet costs, even if it was 2007.

It does bring up thoughts of what to do with other engine houses which are in dire need of sorting. A couple off the top of my head. Austen's 80" (Fowey) Reade's Pump(Hallenbeagle) Cornish Rolls (Wheal Martha) St Aubyn Engine. The list goes on. A few can be caught. I think this one is perhaps too far gone for private money.
IP: 87.114.29.109
derrickman

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Broadgate Pump House for sale.
Posted: 11/08/2009 10:03:43
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I would agree, I think the shaft works and the access situation between them render the condition of the house itself, irrelevant.

I notice there is no mention of PP for the associated land packages. If you could develop them, and put the money into the engine house work, it might be a different game altogether. That may have been the original intention, now the business model has changed and the seller is looking for a cash return ?
IP: 149.254.51.44 Edited: 11/08/2009 10:06:00 by derrickman
AR

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Location: Knot far from Knotlow in the middle of the Peak District

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Broadgate Pump House for sale.
Posted: 11/08/2009 10:27:58
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If the additional land is currently classified as agricultural you'd need change of use planning permission to make it into a garden or build on it, and I can't help but wonder if the seller has had informal discussions with planning officers that have not been encouraging....

Likewise, if you can't see what the condition of the shaft on the bobwall side is that's a serious risk. The ruins at Old Engine mine at Crich had to be bulldozed into the shaft after a collapse undermined the bobwall - there's a photo of it in Willies and Parker in this state taken just before it was demolished.

--

I think I'll have the sheep first, then I'll have the abbot
IP: 194.159.145.70
stuey

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Broadgate Pump House for sale.
Posted: 11/08/2009 10:51:23
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Caradon Planning officers used to be legendary for making architectural abortions happen in unlikely places. TPO, SSSI, AONB, no problemo. They got in a fair bit of trouble for it a while ago and the chief got sacked. Great job to be in though and really, morals aside....who wouldn't? Innocent IP: 87.114.29.109
carnkie

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Joined: 07/09/2007
Location: camborne, cornwall

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Broadgate Pump House for sale.
Posted: 11/08/2009 11:34:30
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This is I assume is the copy of the planning application that was granted. Regarding the mine shaft, 'to be covered at engineers design'.
[web link]

--

The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there.
IP: 80.47.197.185 Edited: 11/08/2009 11:35:06 by carnkie
derrickman

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Broadgate Pump House for sale.
Posted: 11/08/2009 11:49:23
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ok THAT all makes sense.. if you bought the house without buying the associated land parcels, you have all sorts of possible access problems with the eventual owners.

the land parcels are no use for development or they would be so described, and sold separately, or a builder would buy the lot and develop the rest of the plot..

there is no reference to the possible cost end extent of the shaft capping works, which makes me suspect that they are excessively expensive for the value of the property and/or its potential development value.

so, if you had more money than sense, you could have a des res in a sizeable paddock.. I can think of worse ways of spending best part of a million, but I would think you would end up with a sizeable hole in that sort of sum by the time you were finished. AND, I would certainly want mains drainage for that kind of outlay, which isn't mentioned and therefore presumably isn't feasible.
IP: 149.254.51.39
B.E.H.

Joined: 31/08/2013

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Broadgate Pump House for sale.
Posted: 31/08/2013 20:27:23
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Nothing has appeared on this thread for some time, so I thought I might, as owner of Broadgate Engine House, scotch some of the wilder speculation and confirm some of the rest, now that the restoration is under way.
1. The price quoted was close to what was paid, which would have been expensive had it just been for the site and remains of the building. It included all the work which had been required to obtain detailed planning permission and listed buildings consent. This included the architects drawings and structural engineering reports, historical design and access statements, archaeological reports, surveys "as is", ground contamination reports, wildlife surveys and reports, and so on. This was several years work that I would otherwise have had to commision.
2. I am a private individual restoring the engine house for my own use. Builders or property developers would be extremely wary of such a project as the time taken in negotiation of detail with the various bodies involved would take too long to make it viable for them. My professional background is as a chartered engineer and programme manager of very large electronics projects from which I am now retired. I have restored a cottage c1500, built a house with a builder constructing the shell and me doing everything else, and built another house with me doing everything from design and obtaining planning permission, through structural design and hands on building.
3. The access was uppermost in my mind when buying the property and for this reason I bought land so I own my access. The cost of building the access road was remarkably cheap but will be finished to make it visually unobtrusive, so a bit more cost yet. The paddock will stay paddock so no change of use. I would have thought the chances of any development on the paddock were nil, so price reflected that.
4. Capping the mine was expensive in terms of the quantity of concrete involved, but we were lucky that the bedstone was not too far below the surface. Cost was close to estimate.
5. Contrary to what is said the stonework was in remarkably good condition, with only one minor structural crack in the north wall, probably there for a long time, and relatively easily and cheaply rectified. More important were the rotted out timber lintels and other timber inserts with small local collapses.
6. Cost of utilities were estimated, but wrongly. Despite there having been water on to the site the water authority would not reconnect the supply to the existing pipe, so a new pipe had to be laid, and despite the fact the electicity is to a pole on site a new transformer has to be paid for as the existing one is at capacity! The nearest mains drains are 3 miles away so a private sewage system will be installed as planned and costed. Telephone is nil cost with mobiles.
7. The 3 variables to balance in any project are time, cost and quality. As this is a retirement project cost and quality are being closely controlled and time is the trade off. I will do much of the work myself to keep cost down and employ experts where quality is beyond my skills. It takes as long as it takes to do a good job.
8. Do not believe the prices some people quote for work/materials as some build in big contingencies. For some materials I have, with a lot of research, got the same thing for 1/3 the price quoted by the first supplier. Treat the good people with trust and respect and don't take advantage if they make a genuine mistake. It's easy to find the costs of material and calculate hours of labour to check they have not taken you for a fool.
9. If you think I will be spending a million, or even half that, think again. Virtually all the unknown costs are sorted and the major work now is not much different from any other build. However the point is not to make a profit as it will be my home, but I do not want to make a big loss. I hope people appreciate that Broadgate Engine House would have fallen down if left for very much longer without repair, and hopefully we will have it stable and weatherproof before the winter. Yes it would be an expensive 3 bedroom house, but I am not competing in that market.

John
IP: 81.132.176.110
lozz

Joined: 03/08/2012
Location: Cornwall

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Broadgate Pump House for sale.
Posted: 31/08/2013 21:05:09
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Hats off, at least something is being done.

Lozz.
IP: 81.151.11.71
viewer

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Broadgate Pump House for sale.
Posted: 31/08/2013 21:27:08
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Thanks for the detail B.E.H.

Again hats off and I wish you good luck with completion. Thumbs Up

edit: it would be really good to see some before and after photos (only the outside if you'd understandably prefer to keep the privacy of your own home private)

--

'Learning the ropes'
IP: 92.41.211.48 Edited: 31/08/2013 21:51:58 by viewer
ICLOK

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Broadgate Pump House for sale.
Posted: 01/09/2013 10:16:58
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Good on you B.E.H.... wishing you every bit of good fortune in your project .... (you rebuilding the chimney top Flowers ???)

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Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh Creeper!!!!!
IP: 2.100.241.156
derrickhand

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Broadgate Pump House for sale.
Posted: 01/09/2013 12:51:28
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Very interesting post, thanks for that. An experienced restorer with knowledge if the project and the ability to make worthwhile savings by focussing on minimising contingency items and adding value at no cost from their experience, with no requirement to make a profit on the final cost, sounds like the ideal buyer for this site.

Good luck with the work, I'd love to see the finished job.

--

plus ca change, plus c'est le meme chose
IP: 85.132.37.42
Tamarmole

Joined: 20/05/2009
Location: Tamar Valley

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Broadgate Pump House for sale.
Posted: 01/09/2013 17:46:08
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Having had the pleasure of looking up the owners culvert I can attest that the Broadgate engine house is in good hands. IP: 86.159.143.232 Edited: 01/09/2013 17:52:11 by Tamarmole
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