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Author Gt Crinnis Mine mislocated
unity99

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Gt Crinnis Mine mislocated
Posted: 28/07/2009 15:03:42
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have noticed that the NGR for Gt Crinnis is incorrect. it is given as SX55524, but should be SX052520 (this from the Cornish Mining World Heritage Site Interactive Mapping site) IP: 86.0.0.86
Jimbo

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Gt Crinnis Mine mislocated
Posted: 28/07/2009 15:59:22
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unity99 wrote:

have noticed that the NGR for Gt Crinnis is incorrect. it is given as SX55524, but should be SX052520 (this from the Cornish Mining World Heritage Site Interactive Mapping site)


Location now updated, seemed to be somewhere in the Channel off the coast of Plymouth Big Grin
IP: 89.240.94.232
Jimbo

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Gt Crinnis Mine mislocated
Posted: 28/07/2009 16:36:47
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Do all these Crinnis Mines near St Austell exist [web link], can only find positive reference to Great, East & West Crinnis Mines on Google.

Was just updating the grid references as they were all showing in the middle of the English Channel.

Was hoping for some input from our Southern brethren as it's not an area I know well Big Grin

Jim
IP: 89.240.94.232 Edited: 28/07/2009 18:56:11 by Jimbo
derrickman

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Gt Crinnis Mine mislocated
Posted: 28/07/2009 17:42:53
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don't know St Austell but I DO know the Channel and can confirm that there are NO mine workings there .... Big Grin IP: 149.254.219.37
unity99

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Gt Crinnis Mine mislocated
Posted: 28/07/2009 17:43:45
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a number of the cornish mines run out to sea, but not that far Smile

the Crinnis mines are a bit of a mess. the two main references, Dines (D) and Hamilton Jenkin (HJ) mention the following however:

Crinnis 2 miles E by S of St Austell, later becoming Gt Crinnis & Carlyon Consols (D)

West Crinnis 2 miles E of St Austell (D)

Crinnis Consols, unlocated - but produced copper in 1869 (D).

New Crinnis, unlocated - but produced tin in 1838 (D).

Appletree aka South Crinnis, immediately south of West Crinnis (D) Appletree is in the database at SX45521, but this is clearly an error as it is an incomplete NGR! Not sure exactly where the mine is, but Appletree point is at NGR SX 044515

Additionally [HJ] mentions East Crinnis and Gt Crinnis in Vol XIV of Mines and Miners of Cornwall, but as this is the one volume in the series I don't have Sad , I dont know whether he gives NGRs or what he says about them, or if they duplicate any of the above.

Does not seem to be any mention of either Higher or Little Crinnis

Anyway, hope this helps sort them out a bitThumbs Up
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spitfire

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Gt Crinnis Mine mislocated
Posted: 31/07/2009 17:57:32
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Information on these mines to say the least is rather sketchy, anyway this may help a little.
the only location I can find for Crinnis & East Crinnis is:OS51NW.
Crinnis which later became Great Crinnis was declared to be not worth a pipe of tobacco in 1808 went on to produce a profit in 1811-14 £239,249 and 1814-33 £226,518.
East Crinnis £525,735 profit in 1820-41
Crinnis Consols in 1869 sold 80 tons of copper ore
New Crinnis in 1838 sold 1 ton of tin ore
South Crinnis in 1849-56 sold copper for £44,950 and 1857-66 £59,534.
West Crinnis 1855-6 sold copper for £3,595.
Little Crinnis 1880 worked for copper No sales
Crinnis & Carlyon later Great Crinnis consols sold copper for £1,967 in 1877-81.


(click image to open full size image in new window)

--

spitfire
IP: 81.141.108.63 Edited: 31/07/2009 23:34:28 by spitfire
royfellows

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Gt Crinnis Mine mislocated
Posted: 31/07/2009 19:40:28
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New Crinnis according to Mining Journal 1837 had £7,000 to £8,000 spent and yet was sold to their own agents for £1500, being reworked as “Cuddra”

There is a prospectus for this company in that year, can upload if anyone wants.

There are Mining Journal ‘hits’ for this up to the end of 1849


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'There's a lot of activity for a disused mine!' - Bond in 'A view to a kill'
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spitfire

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Gt Crinnis Mine mislocated
Posted: 31/07/2009 23:33:17
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Regarding Cuddra: There seems to be some confusion here as Collins has Cuddra at work in 1815-41 sold copper to the value of:£27,636 plus another 36 tons sold by private contract in 1824
1861-9 sold 378 tons of copper ore and 1837-1861-72 sold 530 tons of black tin.
In 1864 it was 105 fathoms below adit ( 18 ) the mine had a 50" pumping engine, 36" stamping engine, 24" whim and employed eighty one people.
In 1870 it was 142 fathoms below adit and employed 124 people. The mine at one time formed part of the Charlestown United group

--

spitfire
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lipsi

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Gt Crinnis Mine mislocated
Posted: 01/08/2009 07:05:37
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Quite a few of the mines in the database, where the grid ref starts with SX0 are mislocated, as the 0 has been missed off. They're mainly around the St Austell/Par area.

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Where there's a mine or a hole in the ground. That's where I'm heading for that's where I'm bound So follow me down Cousin Jack (Grateful thanks to Show of Hands)
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royfellows

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Gt Crinnis Mine mislocated
Posted: 01/08/2009 07:12:48
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There is a lot of confusion in the Mining Journal Mr Spitfire, companies were being formed with the same names as existing concerns, mines are mentioned with no indication at all of their location etc. There is also the matter of 'variations' of a name for example there could be a "Wheal Maureen" later as "The Wheal Maureen Tin and Copper Mining Company" and later as "The Central Cornwall etc.

The source of my information regarding the sale of New Crinnis is a letter in the Journal.

I am in the process of digitalising the Mining Journal based on my good friend George W Hall’s written index. The index database opens the related page image file by hyperlinks concatenated in Visual Basic. At this point in time I am half way through 1851. I hope that I live long enough to complete this task!

I am off to Wales for the weekend, but will take another look on Monday.




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'There's a lot of activity for a disused mine!' - Bond in 'A view to a kill'
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royfellows

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Gt Crinnis Mine mislocated
Posted: 03/08/2009 13:16:29
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I did say that I would take another look at this, however I am sorry but there is little I can add to what I have already posted.

Anyway, here is chapter and verse.

Mining Journal
March 25th 1837 Prospectus for Cuddra, mentions their plot as being between Great Crinnis and Charlestown United.

March 29 1837: Letter regarding scrip companies, mentions New Crinnis having had £7,000 to £8,000 spent sold to their own agents for £1500, then being reworked as “Cuddra”
Confirmed in a comment by the editor



(click image to open full size image in new window)

There are April 1841 entries for Cuddra Consolidated Mines relating to the winding up by order of the Stannary court and subsequent sale of plant


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'There's a lot of activity for a disused mine!' - Bond in 'A view to a kill'
IP: 78.150.37.76
spitfire

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Gt Crinnis Mine mislocated
Posted: 03/08/2009 15:48:37
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What you seem to have uncovered here is a mining fiddle. Also Cuddra Consols is a separate mine to Cuddra, probably another scam, there is also a South Cuddra

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spitfire
IP: 81.141.108.28
royfellows

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Gt Crinnis Mine mislocated
Posted: 03/08/2009 17:11:00
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I think you have probably hit the nail on the head Mr Spitfire.


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'There's a lot of activity for a disused mine!' - Bond in 'A view to a kill'
IP: 78.150.37.76
stuey

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Gt Crinnis Mine mislocated
Posted: 04/08/2009 14:55:13
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Out of interest Roy, do you have loads of mining journals or is there some sort of online database?

The day that the local record office sticks low res copies of what they have online, I will be a happy man. Even if we have to club together to pay the annual £500. I'd much rather have a browse at my leisure rather than be overwhelmed at the record office.
IP: 87.112.53.104
royfellows

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Gt Crinnis Mine mislocated
Posted: 04/08/2009 15:28:37
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George W Hall has what may well be the last remaining bound copies of the MJ in private hands. He also has an index that runs from 1835 when the MJ was first published, up to about 1920. These are meticulously written in little "exercise books" of the type that Woolworths used to sell, on the rear are tables that include pounds, shillings and pence.

Compiling the index took him years, and his is probably the most accurate and complete in existence.

My project commenced about November last year when I proposed the idea to him, and consists of populating a Microsoft Access relational database with his index, and photographing his journals. The methodology is very simple, and is possibly one of the best ideas I have had, well along with copper thermodynamic conductors for converting Oldham lamps!
Basically, each page photographed has a file name that corresponds with "volume number_page number" so that the index database can open the relevant page using hyperlinks concatenated in visual basic.

It is unlikely in the extreme that it will ever go on the Internet; it will more likely be available as a package with the database application on a CD ROM and a companion external HDD with the image files.
To date I am half way through 1851, there are 6146 mines and 27761 page references.
Mines can be mines, mining companies, collieries or whatever. They are also cross referenced, a useful feature considering the various changes in ownership and company names. Although each page reference is in a separate record, the index can print out as each page number as a comma separated value in a concatenated string. Index print outs can also be to file, MS Word, Excel, or plain text.
There is an indication of entry type as well, such as Prospectus, Meeting, Winding up by Stannary court etc, denoted by a parenthesised character next to the page number.

I have a technical bulletin which I can upload if anyone wants, but be warned, it is unlikely that anyone with the exception of Chris JC will understand it. Remember my code sample in a "superlamps" posting?


--

'There's a lot of activity for a disused mine!' - Bond in 'A view to a kill'
IP: 78.150.37.76 Edited: 04/08/2009 15:31:56 by royfellows
tomh

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Gt Crinnis Mine mislocated
Posted: 04/08/2009 16:31:37
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I remember hearing there was a big court case over the crinnis mines. There was also a large collapse covering approx 6 acres there IP: 82.132.139.132
spitfire

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Gt Crinnis Mine mislocated
Posted: 04/08/2009 18:28:40
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You're right there Tomh.
The weight of the paper evidence was three quarters of a ton!
180 witnesses were called, who on expenses consumed 370 grogs and 50 bottles of wine in one single evening

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spitfire
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JohnnearCfon

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Gt Crinnis Mine mislocated
Posted: 04/08/2009 21:40:55
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spitfire wrote:

You're right there Tomh.
The weight of the paper evidence was three quarters of a ton!
180 witnesses were called, who on expenses consumed 370 grogs and 50 bottles of wine in one single evening


So, a good time was had by all then? (except the people who were stung).

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Cadwch Cymru'n daclus-Taflwch eich ysbwriel yn LLoeger
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DougCornwall

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Gt Crinnis Mine mislocated
Posted: 29/08/2009 17:20:26
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Quite a few mines from the st austell area have been relocated to a point near the Edystone Lighthouse. It is being assumed that this was due to a finger slip on entering the data.
However I have heard that there was more to this.
As you have mentioned there appears to have been a good deal of devious skuldugary under the table concerning in particular the Crinnis mines.
As part of the solution it was decided that many of the companies should be refloated under new names. Once the mines had been refloated it was quite a simple matter to tow them by sea to a new location. The eddystone has its light marker and therefore an excellent point at which to sink new shafts. And thats what they did they sank them just off the Eddystone.
The place where the mines had originally been was tidied up and the old mineshafts connected by a pathway of mown grass. If you count the old shafts along there you will find there are exactly 18 of them.
When the diddled investors all arrived from London to check their investments they were all handed sticks and balls from the crusher then given a tour of the site along the grassy clearways, hole by hole. This was so popular that it was decided to forget the mines out to sea and just do the stick ball thing. So the game of golf was invented in Cornwall and not Scotland and the site made into the golf course it is today. So there we have it.

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