Mine exploration, photographs and mining history for mine explorers, industrial archaeologists, researchers and historians Mine explorer and mining history videos on YouTube Connect with other mine explorers on Facebook
Tip: do not include 'mine' or 'quarry', search by name e.g. 'cwmorthin', use 'Sounds like search' if unsure of spelling

Advanced Search
'Sounds like search'
Quick a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z
Tip: narrow down your search by typing more than one word and selecting 'Search for all words' or 'Exact search'

Search for any word
Search for all words
Exact search
Tip: narrow down your search by typing more than one word and selecting 'Search for all words' or 'Exact search'

Search for any word
Search for all words
Exact search

Mine Exploration Forum

Jump to page << < 1 2 3 > >>
Author Great Flat Lode
Roy Morton

Avatar of Roy Morton

Joined: 09/10/2007
Location: Redruth Cornwall

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Great Flat Lode
Posted: 23/06/2009 01:06:08
Reply |  Quote
Two big questions here, The GFL and the WF, the answers to which will only be discovered by practical means as WUM are now doing. I can't see that any company, regardless of whatever business they are engaged in, would speculate to the degree that WUM have if the prospect of success was not more than 80%.
The capital investment to date, as has already been mentioned, far exceeds the development (and re-instatement) of the land for any commercial building scheme, industrial or domestic.
No one today has money to throw at mining as they did in the 19th century, caution being the key word with world currency fluctuations and so on.
Anyway! maybe these lode plans will shed a little light on the situation for those who haven't got the foggiest idea what the hell we are all talking about. Laugh



(click image to open full size image in new window)



(click image to open full size image in new window)





--

'Bid me discourse, I will enchant thine ear'
IP: 81.153.210.132 Edited: 23/06/2009 01:23:54 by Roy Morton
derrickman

Avatar of derrickman

Joined: 18/02/2009

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Great Flat Lode
Posted: 23/06/2009 08:50:21
Reply |  Quote
sounds as though a pattern is emerging here;

(1) there is a sizeable area in the Stray Park direction where two things of value may, or may not, be located - The Wide Formation and the lower extent of Dolcoath Main.

historically these have been neglected because the technology of the time, and the chronic lack of capital in the system at the time ( cf 'Amongst Mines and Miners', where this is said in as many words ), prevented this being attempted


(2) someone, somewhere, is prepared to put up serious money to make the attempt with current methods


(3) the current South Crofty site represents a revenue stream for SOMEONE.

(a) For one side ( who may be collectively lumped under the banner of the CPO ), it is the principal value of the site, and the putative returns on mining operations are irrelevant.

(b) For the other, who may be collectively regarded as WUM, the site represents a financial return on what is at present, a large area of no current use, containing a selection of large industrial buildings, some of which ( such as the headframe ) are probably so politicized that the purely pragmatic judgement that they have no further value isn't a realistic option, and some of which are so derelict and unsafe that they will inevitably require demolition at some stage, and whose location is not relevant to the proposed surface layout of the new workings.

WUM site management clearly have a duty to minimise costs related to this, and generate any revenue they can for their paymasters. Hence, if they are able to offload the costs of securing and insuring the site, making the site safe, put the liability for the ( probable ) indefinite upkeep of the headframe on someone else, and generate some income in the process, this is what management are supposed to do - isn't it?


anyone?


IP: 149.254.51.124
Dolcoathguy

Avatar of Dolcoathguy

Joined: 21/05/2008
Location: Camborne, Cornwall

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Great Flat Lode
Posted: 23/06/2009 09:56:43
Reply |  Quote
Roy
I don't suppose you have the rest of map (west and south of Dolcoath) that would cover Harriet and stray park mine, it would be interesting to know what lodes are under my house more than anything, as well as covering more of the area where South Crofty may be working in the future.

Still waiting to feel the explosions through the floor, nothing yet!. (I am near to Dolcoath crossing).

Thanks


IP: 194.126.226.253
Knocker

Joined: 17/06/2008

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Great Flat Lode
Posted: 23/06/2009 13:25:10
Reply |  Quote
Dolocoath guy, its intersting you're not hearing it, I'm in Laity Fields and I'm hearimg it twice a day. It is actually more a noise than a vibration, normally at between 6:45pm and 7pm and 7:00 am and 7:15am.

Extrapoltating the lines of the tunnels, the main access is crossing Dolcoath road at approx 45 degrees heading under KDC offices (Ooops sorry Cornwall Council). The 60fm is running at right angles to this, under the centre of laity fields towards williams shaft.

Derrickman the wide formation should actually be to the South of Williams, Dolcoath Main should be at depth to the North in stray park.

And Derrickman, your summary there is pretty much as I see it.
IP: 90.219.230.98 Edited: 23/06/2009 13:27:26 by Knocker
Dolcoathguy

Avatar of Dolcoathguy

Joined: 21/05/2008
Location: Camborne, Cornwall

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Great Flat Lode
Posted: 23/06/2009 13:47:47
Reply |  Quote
I am in Lower pengegon near to crossing (other side to you), but will keep my ear to the ground as it were.
I recall they knocked down part of a raised internal tramway (ore/waste unloading?) to build Laity Fields. Just think of all that history under your house.
Probably Crofty have timed the explosions to coincide with the busy period with the trains.
My house is on top of an elven? **** (geological term that rhymes with Bike, but guess some geological words are banned ) about 20- 30ft wide, so would that effect the shockwave or is it the Railway cutting?
IP: 194.126.226.253 Edited: 23/06/2009 13:49:33 by Dolcoathguy
derrickman

Avatar of derrickman

Joined: 18/02/2009

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Great Flat Lode
Posted: 23/06/2009 13:52:08
Reply |  Quote
interesting stuff.

when you start a bit of research and see the links within the CPO camp it all hangs together, rather.

The thing I could never understand is quite what WUM are actually looking for. It's not hard to see why Dolcoath didn't work ore at that depth, but with modern methods it's feasible. Same goes for the comparison between what would be feasible and payable by the essentially traditional methods used a Crofty before 1998, and modern bulk-extraction methods.

so, good luck to 'em, sez I. Primary industries creating real wealth, we don't hear enough about that these days.

IP: 149.254.56.49
derrickman

Avatar of derrickman

Joined: 18/02/2009

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Great Flat Lode
Posted: 23/06/2009 13:55:43
Reply |  Quote
what's wrong with Elvan ****, anyway? Is poor old Tolkein not PC enough?

I live in E Anglia and without dykes, we'd be in poor form.
IP: 149.254.56.49
Dolcoathguy

Avatar of Dolcoathguy

Joined: 21/05/2008
Location: Camborne, Cornwall

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Great Flat Lode
Posted: 23/06/2009 14:02:01
Reply |  Quote
The asterisks appeared, I didn't put them in...
Try again .. Elvan **** ...
apologies to Tolkien for misspelling.
IP: 194.126.226.253 Edited: 23/06/2009 14:16:32 by Dolcoathguy
derrickman

Avatar of derrickman

Joined: 18/02/2009

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Great Flat Lode
Posted: 23/06/2009 15:58:29
Reply |  Quote
you'd probably better apologise for using upper case letters as well... ****s, didn't work that time... scunthorpe, analysis IP: 149.254.51.39 Edited: 23/06/2009 16:00:24 by derrickman
Knocker

Joined: 17/06/2008

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Great Flat Lode
Posted: 23/06/2009 17:26:06
Reply |  Quote
From experience in church view road pre 98, generally an elvan **** (or should we rename it elvan lesbian to be PC) causes the shockwave to reverberate very nicely. The elvan is a very dense granite and transmits the shock like bell metal!

When you look at the plan there is that massive patch if undeveloped ground between Dolcoath and roskear, I'm guessing that its never been touched as it wasn't possible to sink a shaft in there in the 1800's, could there possibly be another Dolcoath/Roskear type complex in there?

People who were at crofty pre 98 say they extensively drilled, but they were drilling with super bazookas that have a max core length of 300', the diamec has a max length of 1000m.

Put a core through from Williams to say Grenville, who knows whats there? Same goes for a core from Dolcoath to roskear.
IP: 90.219.230.98
Roy Morton

Avatar of Roy Morton

Joined: 09/10/2007
Location: Redruth Cornwall

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Great Flat Lode
Posted: 23/06/2009 20:27:48
Reply |  Quote
Dolcoathguy wrote:

Roy
I don't suppose you have the rest of map (west and south of Dolcoath) that would cover Harriet and stray park mine, it would be interesting to know what lodes are under my house....


Job Done! Thumb Up

Hope the detail is sufficient to get a reasonable fix on the area you are interested in.



(click image to open full size image in new window)



(click image to open full size image in new window)


--

'Bid me discourse, I will enchant thine ear'
IP: 81.153.210.132
Dolcoathguy

Avatar of Dolcoathguy

Joined: 21/05/2008
Location: Camborne, Cornwall

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Great Flat Lode
Posted: 23/06/2009 21:53:22
Reply |  Quote
Many thanks Roy. Thumbs Up
I think some of the extreme western / Southern workings of dolcoath or Harriet come to an end where I am.
Re Explosions heard some very quiet thuds about 7.35pm, but so quiet and could have been a Lorry rumbling nearby.
Too many other low frequency sounds around (Boy racers with stereos, Trains, Planes, DIY etc) to be sure. The d_yke is under the front part of house according to mining survey so will try listening there.
When I was in knave-go-by in the 70's, Pendarves explosions were very noticeble.
IP: 89.241.151.72 Edited: 23/06/2009 21:57:46 by Dolcoathguy
Knocker

Joined: 17/06/2008

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Great Flat Lode
Posted: 23/06/2009 22:49:51
Reply |  Quote
Believe me despite people jumping up and down they are not very noticable at all, you have to actually listen for them generally. IP: 90.219.230.98
Tezarchaeon

Avatar of Tezarchaeon

Joined: 14/08/2008

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Great Flat Lode
Posted: 23/06/2009 22:54:30
Reply |  Quote
From the way these plans are looking it seems almost as if Simms shaft at Pendarves and Williams shaft at Dolcoath would be usefull for quick access for men and materials in the deeper parts of the mine. IP: 81.79.148.140
stuey

Avatar of stuey

Joined: 15/08/2007

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Great Flat Lode
Posted: 23/06/2009 23:41:30
Reply |  Quote
Only today was I looking at a home made seismograph built out of bits of metal with an interpreter program ripped off the interweb.

Whilst these are easy to build, it would be interesting to have one set up in the area, for measuring falls, blasting or earthquakes. The gadget comes with a movable magnetic vibration damper and is meant to emulate a 100ft high pendulum.

I bet there are all sorts of spurious movements down there. Ground settling, etc. It would be interesting to see how the trace varies between now and when they are pumping.
IP: 87.115.131.173
Knocker

Joined: 17/06/2008

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Great Flat Lode
Posted: 24/06/2009 00:11:40
Reply |  Quote
Ask Agricola for a copy of his seismic monitoring charts, they're quite interesting (for a minute!) IP: 90.219.230.98
derrickman

Avatar of derrickman

Joined: 18/02/2009

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Great Flat Lode
Posted: 24/06/2009 00:19:18
Reply |  Quote
I have had a fair amount of experience of monitoring underground blasting using commercially-produced accelerometers, and I would be quite surprised if you got any identifiable results from what is after all, only a single face at some considerable depth as these things go; especially with a home-made device.

Civils tunnels are generally between 5m and 25m cover, and although the noise and a general 'thump' are often perceived at surface, the actual measured vibrations are usually not significantly different from the background, especially HGV traffic.

The Polperro outfall tunnel comes to mind here, because it was a drive large enough for a Dosco at a very shallow cover in some places, under properties which were positively infested with structural consultants working for second-homers ( which I doubt is a problem in Stray Park, from what I recall ) but there were no issues with blasting vibrations causing damage.

IP: 82.32.67.44
Knocker

Joined: 17/06/2008

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Great Flat Lode
Posted: 24/06/2009 00:27:57
Reply |  Quote
The mine are carrying out a lot of monitoring at surface in order to prove compliance with planning conditions. Thhere was a chart at the pblic meeting about the blasting a few weeks ago, generally they seem to be recording PPVs of 4-5mm/s, do you remember how that compared with Polperro Derrickman? IP: 90.219.230.98
Roy Morton

Avatar of Roy Morton

Joined: 09/10/2007
Location: Redruth Cornwall

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Great Flat Lode
Posted: 24/06/2009 02:46:35
Reply |  Quote
Tezarchaeon wrote:

From the way these plans are looking it seems almost as if Simms shaft at Pendarves and Williams' shaft at Dolcoath would be usefull for quick access for men and materials in the deeper parts of the mine.


William's Shaft is one objective of the present plan for sure. As for Simm's on Pendarves I don't think that would be a option for anything but exploring Killivose or developing Tryphena. Water was a problem on Tryphena lode, and the drives heading out towards Condurrow were fitted with water doors in case old workings were accidentaly holed.
There is a long crosscut North from Simm's into Killivose Mine and a short drive West and east at the end. If you project the eastern drive, it eventually lines up, more or less, with Williams' Shaft on Dolcoath, but as I say, I can't see the practicallity of investing in such a big project. I would think Woolf's Shaft on Condurrow would be a better bet for ventilation or access / emergency egress etc.


Pendarves Workings as at Feb 85


(click image to open full size image in new window)



--

'Bid me discourse, I will enchant thine ear'
IP: 81.153.210.132 Edited: 24/06/2009 02:51:15 by Roy Morton
Dolcoathguy

Avatar of Dolcoathguy

Joined: 21/05/2008
Location: Camborne, Cornwall

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Great Flat Lode
Posted: 24/06/2009 07:46:33
Reply |  Quote
Wasn't there some wooden head gear in the Pendarves area, which I thought was an escape shaft (used it as a climbing frame as a child when we used to sneak over the fence).
From Memory I thought it was by the edge of the woods (running south from Pendarves or parallel with Knave-go-by), but the workings seem to be further over than that. Was the head gear connected to the workings shown in the maps or is my memory a bit off. Also entry for Pendarves in database seems to be in the wrong location, as photos refer to Pendarves in Camborne, location in database is shown as Scorrier.
IP: 194.126.226.253
Jump to page << < 1 2 3 > >>
Moore Books: Specialist Books I.A. Recordings: Mining and Industrial History DVDs Starless River - Caving Store Explore a Disused Welsh Slate Mine
Disclaimer: Mine exploring can be quite dangerous, but then again it can be alright, it all depends on the weather. Please read the proper disclaimer.
© 2005 to 2015 AditNow.co.uk
Top of Page