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Mine Exploration Forum

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Author Should I just give up mine exploring?!?
PeteHall

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Joined: 31/08/2008
Location: Bristol

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Should I just give up mine exploring?!?
Posted: 11/02/2009 20:05:47
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This afternoon, I headed across Weardale to have a look at a mine or two, but somehow things just didn't turn out as I'd planned.

First on the list was Hope Level, which we accessed via a public footpath as far as the entrance. There we found it had been blocked off with some sturdy looking woodwork; someone doesn't want anyone going in...



After that dissapointment, we drove up to Groverake where we had a bit of a look around and took a few pictures. Shortly after leaving, we were pulled over by the police following a report that we'd been parked on the side of the road near the mine. We were questioned for 10 minutes, our details were taken and all the pictures on my camera were checked...

Cursing

--

The distance between stupidity and genius is measured only by success.
IP: 93.96.51.226
Manxman

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Joined: 20/04/2008
Location: North Pennines

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Should I just give up mine exploring?!?
Posted: 11/02/2009 20:33:09
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I've never seen the cops up there before and have often parked up on the main road overlooking the site before walking down for a recce. Last time I looked there were no double yellow lines on that stretch of road .....
According to my 1:25 000 OS map there is a public footpath that goes down the mine road and continues through the site then along the Rookhope Burn before turning off up to Wolfcleugh Farm and over the hill to Middlehope.
Someone's got a hidden agenda ......

Sneaky

Manxman.

--

Quocunque Jeceris Stabit
IP: 87.112.30.226 Edited: 12/02/2009 09:21:08 by Manxman
PeteHall

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Joined: 31/08/2008
Location: Bristol

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Should I just give up mine exploring?!?
Posted: 11/02/2009 20:39:56
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Manxman wrote:


Someone's got a hidden agenda ......


Maybe my naked arse getting changed by the road didn't help Big Grin

--

The distance between stupidity and genius is measured only by success.
IP: 86.145.113.40 Edited: 16/02/2009 11:49:25 by (moderator)
Peter Burgess

Joined: 01/07/2008
Location: Merstham. Or is it Godstone ...... ?

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Should I just give up mine exploring?!?
Posted: 11/02/2009 20:44:11
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PeteHall wrote:

This afternoon, I headed across Weardale to have a look at a mine or two, but somehow things just didn't turn out as I'd planned.

First on the list was Hope Level, which we accessed via a public footpath as far as the entrance. There we found it had been blocked off with some sturdy looking woodwork; someone doesn't want anyone going in...



After that dissapointment, we drove up to Groverake where we had a bit of a look around and took a few pictures. Shortly after leaving, we were pulled over by the police following a report that we'd been parked on the side of the road near the mine. We were questioned for 10 minutes, our details were taken and all the pictures on my camera were checked...

Cursing


Specifically regarding photos. I heard a legal authority on the radio yesterday concerning police powers over photos you have taken. They cannot erase or confiscate images without a court order. Not that they did on this occasion, but worth bearing in mind for the future.


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Hey, who turned out the lights!
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Dean Allison

Joined: 13/01/2008
Location: Northumberland

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Should I just give up mine exploring?!?
Posted: 11/02/2009 21:24:09
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Thats weird about the cops at Groverake. I don't understand why anyone would call the police for someone parked on a public road. Is the mine actually visible from any dwellings round there? IP: 90.203.50.83
ICLOK

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Joined: 19/02/2008
Location: Ripley, Derbyshire up North.

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Should I just give up mine exploring?!?
Posted: 11/02/2009 21:24:12
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As a railway, airliner and gen photographer etc they have NO rights on your photographs unless they specifically believe they are for use in terrorism, or they are taken of a military or govt designated site or are part of a criminal/civil proceeding etc and even then they as Peter rightly says need a court order or to have arrested you on those grounds. Withstanding that, you are not obliged to show them the images even if taken on private land.... thats between you and the land owner.
I also hope you asked what grounds this interogation was conducted (its not illegal to ask). If you feel wronged get it off your chest in a letter, the more we let this type of thing happen the worse it gets!
We get this crap day in and out on transportation......


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The railway isn't run simply for the convenience of your dragon!
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pacef8

Joined: 20/12/2008

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Should I just give up mine exploring?!?
Posted: 11/02/2009 21:57:56
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Its true that the prevention of terrorism act is trying to be used on photographers and police i think are misguided that they can view your images or even confiscate your equipment. This is not the case and you should instruct the fellow of his rights to protect and serve .
I would wright a letter to chief constable plod reminding him of the current law and recommending you receive an apology from the officer.

http://www.sirimo.co.uk/ukpr.php

this may help you and others.

complain complain complain
IP: 86.149.220.62
jagman

Joined: 11/03/2007

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Should I just give up mine exploring?!?
Posted: 11/02/2009 22:17:56
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BigLoada wrote:

Thats weird about the cops at Groverake. I don't understand why anyone would call the police for someone parked on a public road. Is the mine actually visible from any dwellings round there?


Yes it is visible from houses. You can bet your last pound that one of the local gamekeepers is watching you too.
The Police will have been called due to the amount of scrap stealing that has gone on at Groverake over the last few years.
IP: 90.210.91.59
PeteHall

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Location: Bristol

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Should I just give up mine exploring?!?
Posted: 11/02/2009 22:22:05
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jagman wrote:


The Police will have been called due to the amount of scrap stealing that has gone on at Groverake over the last few years.


They mentioned stuff getting stolen up there which is why they turned up.
If we were in an artic with a crane, I could understand that, but in a Fiesta?

--

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ICLOK

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Joined: 19/02/2008
Location: Ripley, Derbyshire up North.

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Should I just give up mine exploring?!?
Posted: 11/02/2009 22:33:08
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Gods and I was starting to believe i was the only one....

I was last stopped in the peak district whilst photographing the CHPR from a layby on the A515, I was asked what I was photographing and did I have permission Shocked , did I have ID?...... was it my car?, I responded by asking him why he had stopped to ask me, and I explained its not illegal to take pics from a public highway and that I had no ID (I did but was interested to know what would happen). He got on his radio, PNC'd my car, then suddenly he said he'd got another call..... I just stood there staggered!



--

The railway isn't run simply for the convenience of your dragon!
IP: 78.150.78.106
Vanoord

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Joined: 28/11/2005
Location: North Wales

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Should I just give up mine exploring?!?
Posted: 11/02/2009 22:33:12
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Ah yes, I've been accused of acting suspiciously at the car park in Tan-y-Grisiau when waiting for someone. Not by the police, mind... Roll Eyes

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Filling space until a new signature comes along...
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Peter Burgess

Joined: 01/07/2008
Location: Merstham. Or is it Godstone ...... ?

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Should I just give up mine exploring?!?
Posted: 11/02/2009 22:44:10
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ICLOK wrote:

Gods and I was starting to believe i was the only one....

I was last stopped in the peak district whilst photographing the CHPR from a layby on the A515, I was asked what I was photographing and did I have permission Shocked , did I have ID?...... was it my car?, I responded by asking him why he had stopped to ask me, and I explained its not illegal to take pics from a public highway and that I had no ID (I did but was interested to know what would happen). He got on his radio, PNC'd my car, then suddenly he said he'd got another call..... I just stood there staggered!



You can photograph whatever you want provided you are not causing a nuisance or harrassment, whether on private or public property, as far as I know. That includes photographs of people. What you may fall foul of is invasion of privacy, but only if you PUBLISH a photograph of someone, and that is a civil matter between the two parties. It may be a condition of access that you do not take photos, in National Trust houses for example. But that is a private matter between the NT and the visitor. I suspect it is a matter of being politely ASKED not to take photos... I'm not an expert, by the way, just happened to hear this stuff recently on the radio.




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ICLOK

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Joined: 19/02/2008
Location: Ripley, Derbyshire up North.

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Should I just give up mine exploring?!?
Posted: 11/02/2009 23:00:25
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Peter, I take literally 1000's of pics a year... and I always take as much care not to upset as I can and I'm sure most of us do. Totally agree with what you say and that is my understanding too, but i am finding more and more these days its any excuse for some do gooder to take you to task however responsible someone is with a camera..... right down to a council worker at Roman Cave on High tor recently telling me I was not allowed to photograph the restoration of the site!!!! Blink Even though its totally Public access to any of that area without restriction.
Another guy i met in a transport forum told of how he was told off in Cornwall 18 months ago for taking pictures of Dolcoath Harriets engine house, why? ... because there were children and families pic-nicking nearby and that he could be anyone including a pervert!! How do you deal with that sort of paranoia...?


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The railway isn't run simply for the convenience of your dragon!
IP: 78.150.78.106
pacef8

Joined: 20/12/2008

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Should I just give up mine exploring?!?
Posted: 11/02/2009 23:11:10
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ask mr council worker "really omg" can i have your name i must thank you to your boss give me his number please i really am so gratefull to you for this.

Then lamp him. then take his photo Laugh
IP: 86.149.220.62
Peter Burgess

Joined: 01/07/2008
Location: Merstham. Or is it Godstone ...... ?

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Should I just give up mine exploring?!?
Posted: 11/02/2009 23:12:09
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How do you deal with it? Ignore it. Exercise your rights but also be aware of other people's sensitivities within reason. Defining "within reason" is becoming more and more difficult nowadays.


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Hey, who turned out the lights!
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ICLOK

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Should I just give up mine exploring?!?
Posted: 11/02/2009 23:28:40
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Dear Pacef8 I was very tempted to test the depth of the Roman Cave lead workings by pitching said council worker in there... but this may have pushed the "within reason" theory too far even for me...... Laugh

Having said that, and on a happier note I guess there are the odd wonderful times when someone see's you taking the pics from afar, comes over then gives you the guided tour as happened to me when Mr Budge himself took me around Hatfield Colliery! I have also been given some amazingly rare opportunities to photo in a number of unique historical circumstances.
But in general I think people are alot more cranky now re photography for no real reason.....


--

The railway isn't run simply for the convenience of your dragon!
IP: 78.150.78.106 Edited: 11/02/2009 23:30:20 by ICLOK
Knocker

Joined: 17/06/2008

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Should I just give up mine exploring?!?
Posted: 11/02/2009 23:53:12
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One of the ones I find amusing now is the local news, if they are in a school they only film the kids feet! IP: 79.74.253.21
Wormster

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Joined: 15/08/2006
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Should I just give up mine exploring?!?
Posted: 12/02/2009 00:17:40
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If you are on public ground tell 'em to naff ooff! and if you get hassled by the feds take down its number and ask for a "pink slip"* as to why they have wasted their time and yours!

* sory can't remember the exact form number.

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Better to regret something you have done - than to regret something you have not done.
IP: 86.134.29.118
justin

Joined: 04/04/2008

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Should I just give up mine exploring?!?
Posted: 12/02/2009 01:41:19
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I quite agree with pacef8........
white a strongly worded letter to the chief constable concerned making reference to the date and time of your stop. Even the most casual of stops and enquiries is documented. Request to know the ground for the stop and remind him of his and his officers legal obligations with regard to stop and search which what you describe constitutes in law.

Unfortunately under the cloak of anti terrorism legislation. most of which was brought into law decretely during night sessions of parliament. The police now have a "free pass" to cover all eventualities. which they exploit to their advantage.

I am afraid to say the common sense has gone out of policeing...

Any bloke holding a camera near a school is now tagged as a pedo until proved otherwise.

Anyone paying cash for goods cars services or depositing same in the bank is now laudering money. assumed to be the procedes of crime.

Anyone requesting a gun license is assumed to be some kind of psyco.

even arguing the toss / having a difference of opinion with copper can now be deemed an offence under section ? 4 or 5 public order act ...

we now i afraid live in a police state where our civil liberties are rapidly being curtailed and eroded....


two phrases spring to mind for use when stopped by the police for no reason....

1/ It's alright sonny I'm a Mason !!

2/ Police are recruited from the general population. this contains a mix of scum pedos and thieves....Which one are you officer.....


rant over

Big Grin
IP: 91.111.61.242
sparty_lea

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Joined: 26/04/2007
Location: Weardale

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Should I just give up mine exploring?!?
Posted: 12/02/2009 05:31:08
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"Should I just give up mine exploring"

No, but I'd recommend looking as much like a walker as possible til you disappear down whichever hole it is you're off in. Getting changed in the carpark at Nenthead is accepted and a normal sight for the locals.

Other landowners are not always so accommodating and if you don't have permission to visit changing into bright yellow overalls on the roadside only attracts suspicion.

A few years back somebody stole the headframe from No 1 shaft at Groverake and cut it up for scrap, the buildings have been completely trashed by vandals.
The scrap thieves were caught because someone was suspicious and called the police.

If you park up and go down there looking like a walker with a camera round your neck you're far less likely to attract attention than if you're in overalls carrying a tackle sack.

This advice is more aimed at other explorers, perhaps new to the area than you Pete. I guess you've figured that out already. Laugh
IP: 79.79.174.94
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