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Author My Oldham Conversions
royfellows

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Joined: 13/06/2007
Location: Great Wyrley near Walsall

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Posted: 24/09/2009 17:42:47
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OK but we need to attract some other people, say with Scurions or other homemade lamps.
I think it will be a good opportunity to try everything and hope someone out there can bring a Viper. I like that lamp and would love to see one.

My bet is still on, looser pays Friends of Cwmorthin.

My £20 says MagnumStar with Crees beats Scurion K.

Tonight, all being well I am testing over Cannock Chase against car headlamps.

My current work is on helmet mount 5 amp hour packs for UniStar as alternative. I am using Deans connectors with wire brace to outer cable and genuine Oldham cable. Helmet attachment is simple 4mm shockcord loop through old tiecord hole.
One thing you can say about my lamps, they are built strong.




--

'There's a lot of activity for a disused mine!' - Bond in 'A view to a kill'
IP: 78.150.33.183
SimonRL

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Joined: 27/11/2005
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Posted: 24/09/2009 17:45:32
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Quite agreed, that was just what I can bring along myself Wink

Scurion and Viper more than welcome!

UK Caving would probably be best place to find Viper users at this time.

--

No sir, this here will do just fine
IP: 83.148.135.213
royfellows

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Posted: 25/09/2009 07:51:58
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This is the last batch of test results comparing my lamps with my car headlamps on main beam.
The camera was setup on a tripod to the right hand front wheel of the car, the lamps were held at the same height as the car headlamps and directed forwards so as to give the best illumination. Exactly the same settings have been applied to all the frames.
There has been no intention to ‘prove’ anything, I am aware that we live in an age were ‘experiments’ are tailored to give specific results, I don’t get research grants whereby I am expected to follow a mainstream idea, I am out to develop the most powerful lamp. If one line of experimentation fails, it gets dumped, end of story.

Having said the above, the results were basically as expected. Note how the UniStar with its mere 500 lumens holds its own. The MagnumStar with its estimated 1200 lumens is best thrower, possibly. The Super MagnumStar with its 3 P7s certainly puts out the most light, but I struggle to see 2700 lumens, I would however agree that it must be well over 2000.

Basically, the whole rash of new powerful lamps has become a numbers game, with the real story coming out when lamps get compared underground.

As far as my lamps are concerned, I do see a lot of mileage in the P7 route, however there are swings and roundabouts.
The 3 P7s are drawing over 30 watts of power, but the 5 Crees of the other draw well over 20, so it appears at this stage that the P7s are giving more bang for bucks.
I see the major issue with the P7 lamp as relating to what you could call ‘normal use’, that is walking around passages etc.

The intermediate settings on the P7 draw approximately 1 watt on low which would probably be useless, and 6 watts on middle settings. A Cree Q5 is a perfect beam for underground use and has a very useful 70% setting that draws 2.8 watts. This is my recommended “walk mode” as I describe it. You can see where this is going.

Having said this, the P7 model has much simpler straightforward wiring.
Underground testing has yet to done, but it may well end up as lamp that uses a Cree Q5 for general use and 2 X SSC P7 for power mode. This is a very real and practical possibility now that I have established that a series array of P7s can be driven from 7.4 to 8.4 volts, a range that is capable of driving a single Cree Q5 with good efficiency. 12 volts would have put this out of the frame.

We shall have to wait and see.

Here are the pictures. The problem even with a comparison is that different viewers will have different screen settings, so use your judgment. Go by the sky, it was quite dark but with a faint glow in the distance from urban street lighting, probably Cannock or somewhere. If it appears bright, take this into consideration. I only want to be fair. As rule of thumb, the P7s were visibly putting out as much as the car headlamps, but without the throw.

#1 Car Headlamps
#2 UniStar
#3 MagnumStar
#4 Super MagnumStar with the P7s




(click image to open full size image in new window)



(click image to open full size image in new window)



(click image to open full size image in new window)



(click image to open full size image in new window)

--

'There's a lot of activity for a disused mine!' - Bond in 'A view to a kill'
IP: 78.150.33.183
Morlock

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Posted: 25/09/2009 07:59:58
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Very impressive, I look forward to the finished product. Smile IP: 82.3.225.202
Vanoord

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Posted: 25/09/2009 10:45:03
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Roy,

Hope you don't mind - I've put the comparisons into a 'Favourites' collection here that should allow all the images to be viewed at one go: [web link]

--

Filling space until a new signature comes along...
IP: 83.148.135.213 Edited: 25/09/2009 10:55:28 by (moderator)
royfellows

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Posted: 25/09/2009 11:20:02
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Thank you all for your kind support.

I can tell you all one thing, the P7 version would make the mother of all hand lamps even in the event that it tuns out to be impractical for a caplamp.

--

'There's a lot of activity for a disused mine!' - Bond in 'A view to a kill'
IP: 78.150.33.183
Morlock

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Posted: 25/09/2009 11:46:41
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royfellows wrote:

I can tell you all one thing, the P7 version would make the mother of all hand lamps .


Sounds ideal for a conversion on an old NIFE or Oldham handlamp.
IP: 86.31.42.29 Edited: 25/09/2009 11:47:25 by Morlock
SimonRL

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Posted: 25/09/2009 11:48:50
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Morlock wrote:

royfellows wrote:

I can tell you all one thing, the P7 version would make the mother of all hand lamps .


Sounds ideal for a conversion on an old NIFE or Oldham handlamp.


That would be a nice touch, and would surprise a few people when you switched it on!

--

No sir, this here will do just fine
IP: 83.148.135.213
royfellows

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Posted: 25/09/2009 15:39:22
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I have now completed a helmet mount battery pack for the UniStar and WorkStar lamps. The battery pack is 2 X 18650 Li Ion cells with circuits to enable through the headset charging using a standard Oldham charger.



(click image to open full size image in new window)

The pack is secured by means of a simple 4mm length of shockcord utilising the pre existing hole for the tie cord. Extra holes can be drilled and an X loop fitted if required.
It is simple, effective, does not rattle about or move about, and not complicated to fit. It is quite possibly stabilised by the heavy genuine Oldham cable, this connects using the very high quality Deans connectors which have been secured by copper wire wound into the outer sheath, and the whole taped and shrink wrapped.



(click image to open full size image in new window)

I genuinely feel that this eminently suitable for the underground environment and a better alternative.

I obviously need to test this under extreme conditions (I do extreme conditions underground, Nenthead coming up next month) before offering it to my esteemed customers.

The expected price will be £110 for UniStar lamp, 2 X 5 ampere hour (3.7 to 4.2V) battery packs, (yes two packs not one) and a metre of 4mm shock cord.


--

'There's a lot of activity for a disused mine!' - Bond in 'A view to a kill'
IP: 78.150.33.183
stuey

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Posted: 25/09/2009 17:42:38
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Roy, you are a class act. Thumbs Up IP: 87.114.163.126
royfellows

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Posted: 28/09/2009 12:34:59
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The MagnumStars: An underground assessment.

I have just returned from a good weekend in north Wales, with some excellent company that included some old friends.
Saturday we were guests of PUG and were privileged to be the first visitors to do the full Parys Mountain round trip.
I was told that I didn’t need a wetsuit, and as a result ended up going through upper chest deep water in jeans and thin shirt under a boiler suit. Still, it was good fun and I cant wait to go back, I’m OK about all this and would like to extend my sincere thanks to the guides who put in their time escorting us around.

Sunday we had a day in a certain slate mine near Blaenau, were I was able to test my lamps in the presence of others.
Now, I have to say a few things first. This is going to upset some people, but I have to be honest and objective, also the opinions expressed were a consensus amongst the group.

Basically, the MagnumStar with the 5 Cree Qs outperformed the one with the 3 SSC P7s as a mining lamp, while at the same time only drawing just over two thirds of the power.
This clearly demonstrates what a silly game of numbers the whole lamp business has become.
It gets worse.
As a practical underground lamp the P7 is totally useless.
On single emitter I had the choice of low, medium or full. Low was impossible to get around on, medium was great but drawing half as much power again as a Cree Q5 on maximum.
The only possible work around on this would be the design of a special lens reflector, which is what the Scurion people appear to have done with their “K” model.
I carefully examined the beam pattern and can confirm that my modified reflector was creating a perfect circular beam pattern, but with the very high spread that I expected from those emitters.

There were some very interesting moments such as when I turned both lamps up to full at the head of a very large incline at the back of the mine; I must have been putting nearly 3,000 lumens down it. I will eventually be able to post some pictures, I am sure my old friend who took then will oblige.
He did several comparison shots between the 2 lamps using the same settings.

I do see a future for the P7 lamp, but in a different form, with a single Cree Q5 for general use, with the option to bring 2 P7s on line as well. I can see this being popular with the cavers rather than mine explorers. As an LED flood lamp, the D BIN SSC P7 is superb. I shall drop the “Super” though and just call it a MagnumStar P7.

As far as the existing lamp goes, I shall probably mount it on a chopped down Oldham hand lamp that I have, I can see good use for this such as setting tents up in the dark and photography etc.

As final comment I have to reiterate my remark about the silly game of numbers. I would advise anyone considering purchasing a new lamp to not do so unless they are able to see a sample of that model perform underground.


--

'There's a lot of activity for a disused mine!' - Bond in 'A view to a kill'
IP: 78.150.33.183
grahami

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Posted: 28/09/2009 13:43:22
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Looks like we can expect some good photos being posted shortly then ?

Big Grin

Grahami

--

The map is the territory - especially in chain scale.
IP: 212.219.117.106
mcrtchly

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Posted: 29/09/2009 09:12:00
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I was with Roy this Sunday and took some photos for him using LED lamps. All photos taken with a Pentax K10D ISO200 F8.0 10 secs exposure 24mm lens. The lamps were Roy's Magnum (5 X Cree Q5 XRE) and Magnum (3 x P7) and my weak (by comparison) Fenix TK10. All photos taken in RAW format and converted to JPEG in Lightroom. No enchancments.



(click image to open full size image in new window)
Magnum 5 X Cree Q5 XRE down incline



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Magnum 3 x P7 down incline



(click image to open full size image in new window)
Stope Fenix TK10



(click image to open full size image in new window)
Stope Magnum 5 X Cree Q5 XRE



(click image to open full size image in new window)
Stope Mangum 3xP7

Martin
IP: 89.204.194.56 Edited: 29/09/2009 09:51:00 by mcrtchly
royfellows

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Posted: 29/09/2009 09:36:11
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Good Morning Martin
Glad you enjoyed the trip.
Just to clarify.
The lamp that your friend had in his pocket/rucksack was the 2 Cree UniStar. I had 2 Maggies, the one on my head with the long throw was a 5 Cree model, the other that I had in my hand with all of the side spill was a 3 P7.

Sorry to be a trouble, but there are a lot of people following this.

As a point of interest, I have just ordered a batch of Ledil Boom 9 degree P7 collimator lenses. If we can get more throw out of the P7 lamp................

I think everyone see where I am going on this.


--

'There's a lot of activity for a disused mine!' - Bond in 'A view to a kill'
IP: 78.150.33.183
mcrtchly

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Posted: 29/09/2009 09:36:19
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Another photo from trip with Roy on Sunday. Taken with a Pentax K10D ISO200 F8.0 39 secs exposure 24mm lens. The Roy's Magnum (5 X Cree Q5 XRE) and Magnum (3 x P7) used from the ledge part way down and my weak Fenix TK10 from the top. Added about +1 stop exposure in Lightroom, fixed white balance and slight curves enhancement in photoshop.



(click image to open full size image in new window)
IP: 89.204.194.56 Edited: 29/09/2009 09:50:12 by mcrtchly
royfellows

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Posted: 02/10/2009 16:39:23
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Further to my last posting I can confirm that I perceive a D BIN P7 based lamp as being just too good to dump.
Further to this I have ordered a batch of Ledil Boom S 9 degree Collimator lenses.
People have commented on the odd appearance of the Scurion K, what you are seeing inside is a collimator, that’s its strange appearance.

My perception is of a lamp that uses 2 SSC P7 emitters in series using the driver setup as tested, 84% efficiency on 2 P7s that will only be subject to occasional use is not a bad deal. Also, this setup using 3 drivers could be improved if I could develop a method of addressing each driver individually, 1, 2 and all 3. This would give a range of power settings.

The third emitter will have to be a Cree Q5, even with collimator lenses the low output mode of the P7 driver would be insufficient, and as I correctly already posted, medium draws an unacceptable 6 watts.

Assuming that the collimators get here from Germany and they are the correct ones, I will post again on this when I have tried them.

The other thing on my mind is the possibility of a lamp similar to the highly successful UniStar whereby I drop the DX cast reflector unit and mount everything on a copper plate. With only 3 emitters this could be a possibility, and may enable the construction of a smaller and lighter lamp without the front extension.

I have no intention of dropping a P7 based lamp, it’s just too good!


--

'There's a lot of activity for a disused mine!' - Bond in 'A view to a kill'
IP: 78.150.33.183
royfellows

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Posted: 07/10/2009 16:01:58
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I have today received a small number of Ledil Boom S collimator lenses for SSC P7 emitters. I have to say that upon trying these I feel some disappointment.
I rather hoped for the tight concentrated beam of light that I am accustomed to see from the Cree Q5, this was not so. Basically, they performed only marginally better than the bored out 3 lens DX reflector unit.
The beam diameter is only slightly more than that of the Cre Q5, however it distinctly lacks that central concentration of light that gives the throw of the Q5s.

As far as the emitters go, I do have to say the D BIN P7 is a completely different animal from the old C BIN, from what I have seen I have formed the opinion that the manufactures claim of up to 900 lumens may not be much of an exaggeration.

I also not that that length of these is such that they will definitely fit inside an Oldham headset without the front extension, as seen on my MagnumStar. There are some issues, such as the fact that the copper LED mounting plate has to be trimmed down so as to avoid shorting on the positive terminal block, or fouling the switch, however I will be experimenting in that direction. I would also have to find some way if fitting more heat sinks that the UniStar which would be inadequate for the job.

Playing around with it, I now feel that I am in position to answer the big question, does a D BIN P7 put out more light than 2 Crees?
I say definitely yes, a lot more, so basically a lamp based on 2 D BIN P7s and a single Cree Q5 for general use would obviously not only be top dog in numbers game but output more light, this could well make up for the lack of throw..

This is just for the benefit of those following this so you know what I am doing.


--

''the stopes soared beyond the range of our caplamps' - David Bick...... How times change
IP: 78.150.37.223
SimonRL

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Posted: 07/10/2009 17:12:32
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Which will you be sporting on Sunday Roy?

--

No sir, this here will do just fine
IP: 83.148.135.213
royfellows

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Posted: 07/10/2009 17:46:06
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Probably have to use what I am given, wont hurt to ask if can use my own though.
Doubt anything P7 ready for a while, lots of work to do.

--

''the stopes soared beyond the range of our caplamps' - David Bick...... How times change
IP: 89.240.116.54
SimonRL

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Posted: 07/10/2009 17:50:02
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Don't worry Roy, it's not that sort of trip! We're being let in and then exploring as we want, or Mark will be showing us around. Either way it's not a public style guided tour. Nobody is going to tell you what lamp you can use Smile

--

No sir, this here will do just fine
IP: 83.148.135.213 Edited: 07/10/2009 17:52:36 by SimonRL
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