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Author Cannock coalfield project
royfellows

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Joined: 13/06/2007
Location: Great Wyrley near Walsall

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Cannock coalfield project
Posted: 14/08/2020 12:55:26
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As I live in the middle of the area I have started a project studying and visiting the ex colliery sites with intention of bringing the database up to date. I note that information on here is scarce for a lot of the sites and it will be useful to record whatever there is.

First sites are within walking distance of my home and started during lockdown. Curiosity started some years ago when I had my home extended and masses of bricks plus some fired clay guttering came out of the ground. Some bricks are yellow and could be Dinas bricks, and I was wondering what was on the site of my property originally.

Old maps, National Library of Scotland, at https://maps.nls.uk/geo/find/#zoom=5&lat=56.00000&lon=-4.00000&layers=102&b=1&z=1&point=0,0 show nothing here except fields. Reconsidering it, I came to the conclusion that it was the rubble from the demolition of Norton Cannock Colliery just a stone throws away, so interest aroused, away I go.

Now I have give a 'heads up' to the fact that the maps site gives you a "side by side" option to compare the old map with the modern satellite view. And it gets even better! Not only are street names clearly displayed but it also gives the Nat Grid coordinates and lat - long.
This is an incredible tool.

Anyway, so far I have found little on sites, but consider this a success in that I have only had to walk from my home to find nothing while in the past I have driven over a hundred miles to find nothing. LOL

Anyway, if I do find hidden archaeological treasures deep in any woods I will put it on this thread.

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robnorthwales

Joined: 21/05/2008
Location: Denbighshire, North wales

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Cannock coalfield project
Posted: 14/08/2020 16:27:33
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Agreed Roy, the NLS mapping website is a work of genius.

I can happily spend hours looking at old rail lines, mine sites, abandoned communities that were associated with them, etc.
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Boy Engineer

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Cannock coalfield project
Posted: 14/08/2020 17:24:04
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I came to the conclusion that it was the rubble from the demolition of Norton Cannock Colliery just a stone throws away


Presumably they threw it, then. Wink
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royfellows

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Joined: 13/06/2007
Location: Great Wyrley near Walsall

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Cannock coalfield project
Posted: 14/08/2020 20:19:25
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Just got in from another local site, never guess what I found.
I think the only mining relic around here is sitting in front of this computer

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Jim MacPherson

Joined: 02/09/2015

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Cannock coalfield project
Posted: 18/08/2020 14:05:50
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robnorthwales wrote:

Agreed Roy, the NLS mapping website is a work of genius.

I can happily spend hours looking at old rail lines, mine sites, abandoned communities that were associated with them, etc.


In addition christwigg added this link to a discussion about mining subsidence a little bit ago.

https://www.lidarfinder.com/

Just choose a location eg Great Wyrley and off you go, some places aren't covered but it's not a bad tool.

What we need is another genius to combine NLS sidebyside with LIDAR.

Jim
IP: 81.154.10.157
royfellows

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Cannock coalfield project
Posted: 18/08/2020 14:48:19
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Well I dont know about that, but I am finding some interesting stuff. Although not archaeological as yet.

I was intrigued by Cannock Lodge , not far from here, and its sophisticated underground haulage system. Only a small colliery really. It seems that mechanisation was more advanced at the collieries than a lot of the metal mines, at least in the mid 19th century. I pondered on this then realised that obviously coal, the source of power, was dirt cheap at the pithead. But became expensive when transported half way across the country.

Also I am finding collieries owned by the firms that consumed the coal, in effect what we now call a"vertical market". Example is Sneyd colliery, again not far from here, originally owned by Willenhall Furnaces. There was an amazing logistical infrastructure involving the railways and the canals here in the midlands. And more so in what is called the "Black Country" which was term coined by Queen Victoria in that everything she saw was black, with the amount of coal being burned to power the local industry.

Disappointingly little left. all covered by housing and industrial estates nowadays, but one never knows.
A phrase from 28DL of all places comes to mind -
"Deep in the woods where nobody goes"
If there is anything to find that is the place to look, I think.

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Down and beyond

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Cannock coalfield project
Posted: 18/08/2020 16:24:25
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Very interesting Roy ! Are the houses now built on top of the tramway are ones around us the houses are built around it and at the tramway it’s the green area for the estate and the water from the workings runs into the new estates lagoon but sadly the pipe is only 12 inch wide CryingCryingCrying IP: 82.132.225.21
pwhole

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Cannock coalfield project
Posted: 18/08/2020 21:42:21
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Jim MacPherson wrote:

robnorthwales wrote:

What we need is another genius to combine NLS sidebyside with LIDAR.

Jim


The genius already has! In the right-hand screen menu 'Select a Map Series', there are DTM and DSM models at 2m and 1m resolution:



(click image to open full size image in new window)
IP: 81.174.241.13
royfellows

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Cannock coalfield project
Posted: 18/08/2020 22:22:17
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Yes, this is what I have been using and posted about previously, its called "Side by Side"
It will give you the mouse pointer map ref as well for your Memory Map loaded GPS device. Fieldwork a go -go
Laugh

National Library of Scotland

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IP: 92.10.79.73 Edited: 18/08/2020 22:23:55 by royfellows
Jim MacPherson

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Cannock coalfield project
Posted: 19/08/2020 07:04:53
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pwhole wrote:

Jim MacPherson wrote:

robnorthwales wrote:

What we need is another genius to combine NLS sidebyside with LIDAR.

Jim


The genius already has! In the right-hand screen menu 'Select a Map Series', there are DTM and DSM models at 2m and 1m resolution:



(click image to open full size image in new window)




Thanks pwhole,

I hadn't noticed that ability to change from the current satellite image option, another thing to play with, though a 3rd tile to allow all three, map, satellite and LIDAR at the same time would be good.

Jim

My belated excuse is that it was only added in August last year... work, Covid, DIY overkill blah blah...Flowers

The fact that I didn't even notice it on your thread about Gleadless is clearly FAKE GNUS
IP: 81.154.10.157 Edited: 19/08/2020 12:52:20 by Jim MacPherson
colin567

Joined: 06/06/2008
Location: Ouston

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Cannock coalfield project
Posted: 19/08/2020 18:13:16
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royfellows wrote:

Well I dont know about that, but I am finding some interesting stuff. Although not archaeological as yet.

I was intrigued by Cannock Lodge , not far from here, and its sophisticated underground haulage system. Only a small colliery really. It seems that mechanisation was more advanced at the collieries than a lot of the metal mines, at least in the mid 19th century. I pondered on this then realised that obviously coal, the source of power, was dirt cheap at the pithead. But became expensive when transported half way across the country.

Also I am finding collieries owned by the firms that consumed the coal, in effect what we now call a"vertical market". Example is Sneyd colliery, again not far from here, originally owned by Willenhall Furnaces. There was an amazing logistical infrastructure involving the railways and the canals here in the midlands. And more so in what is called the "Black Country" which was term coined by Queen Victoria in that everything she saw was black, with the amount of coal being burned to power the local industry.

Disappointingly little left. all covered by housing and industrial estates nowadays, but one never knows.
A phrase from 28DL of all places comes to mind -
"Deep in the woods where nobody goes"
If there is anything to find that is the place to look, I think.

You’re right about integrated business In 1914 Birtley ironworks owned 10 local pits according to the Durham mining museum. (A resource we are lucky to have). There is also a local village called Perkinsville, named after the local coal owner in the 1840s.
Considering that I live in the middle of the Great North Coalfield there is very little to see, though the old maps do help in finding what might be left.
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risy76115

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Joined: 30/10/2011
Location: consett co durham

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Cannock coalfield project
Posted: 19/08/2020 19:19:12
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pwhole wrote:

Jim MacPherson wrote:

robnorthwales wrote:

What we need is another genius to combine NLS sidebyside with LIDAR.

Jim


The genius already has! In the right-hand screen menu 'Select a Map Series', there are DTM and DSM models at 2m and 1m resolution:



(click image to open full size image in new window)


Cheers for that, didn't even know that NLS had done the lidar side

--

Rise from the ashes
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risy76115

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Cannock coalfield project
Posted: 19/08/2020 19:22:19
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colin567 wrote:

royfellows wrote:

Well I dont know about that, but I am finding some interesting stuff. Although not archaeological as yet.

I was intrigued by Cannock Lodge , not far from here, and its sophisticated underground haulage system. Only a small colliery really. It seems that mechanisation was more advanced at the collieries than a lot of the metal mines, at least in the mid 19th century. I pondered on this then realised that obviously coal, the source of power, was dirt cheap at the pithead. But became expensive when transported half way across the country.

Also I am finding collieries owned by the firms that consumed the coal, in effect what we now call a"vertical market". Example is Sneyd colliery, again not far from here, originally owned by Willenhall Furnaces. There was an amazing logistical infrastructure involving the railways and the canals here in the midlands. And more so in what is called the "Black Country" which was term coined by Queen Victoria in that everything she saw was black, with the amount of coal being burned to power the local industry.

Disappointingly little left. all covered by housing and industrial estates nowadays, but one never knows.
A phrase from 28DL of all places comes to mind -
"Deep in the woods where nobody goes"
If there is anything to find that is the place to look, I think.

You’re right about integrated business In 1914 Birtley ironworks owned 10 local pits according to the Durham mining museum. (A resource we are lucky to have). There is also a local village called Perkinsville, named after the local coal owner in the 1840s.
Considering that I live in the middle of the Great North Coalfield there is very little to see, though the old maps do help in finding what might be left.



Colin totally agree with you, not enough local history been saved

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Mr.C

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Cannock coalfield project
Posted: 19/08/2020 22:21:23
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Quite fascinated to see that there was a "Sneyd Colliery down your way Roy. Looking at the maps you posted it seems to have been named after the nearby farm. Sneyd being such an unusual name, I wonder if there's any connection with the the N. Staffs Sneyds, as in Burslems Sneyd Colliery. The same family had been also heavily involved in developing Snowdens copper mines.

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We inhabit an island made of coal, surrounded by a sea full of fish. How can we go wrong.......
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royfellows

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Location: Great Wyrley near Walsall

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Cannock coalfield project
Posted: 19/08/2020 22:34:41
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Big landowner around the was or still is the Vernon family. The land opposite Holly Bank is now "Vernon Park", Mossley estate has a "Vernon Way" and to cap it all Hilton Main now an industrial estate which started as "Hilton Main industrial Estate" is now "Vernon Park Industrial Estate", if memory is serving me correct from my googling at street view.
I have to be honest, I have been drinking alcohol which I normally dont do, but having it as a muscle relaxant. This combined with standing over a convector heater enables me to get down in the splits, at the age of 75. See I am also a martial arts freak.

I will check up on the information re mining in the morning.

While I am at it, I will tell you about Holly Bank.
All been built on so I do google street view for parking and access to the land beyond etc.
I get there, into the crescent, last on the right, and there is the white van seen on google. OK, park up and go exploring.

Coming back, the gap in the fence has a bit of a ditch. To make it sociable in wet weather someone put in a length of pipe. Cast iron pipe. So where did that come from?
OK, so why this particular piece of land not built on?

I think we all know that, but not the people who live there.
Off to have my supper, Bye.
Laugh


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derrick man

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Cannock coalfield project
Posted: 20/08/2020 08:31:01
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Coal mining is fundamentally different from metal mining, it consists of recovering a resources which exists in very large, very extensive seams, the value of which per ton is extremely low.

It is mined in a very high degree of purity, requiring only the simplest of treatment (mostly, washing and sizing) to be shipped to market.

It is far more suitable for mechanisation than metal mining. Indeed, without mechanisation the industry can’t exist - hence the development of the canal and rail networks, centred upon the coal industry.
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royfellows

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Cannock coalfield project
Posted: 20/08/2020 09:08:11
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Hilton Main is "Vernon Park Business park" not Ind Est so wasn't far out. Hilton Park is the ancestral home of the Vernon family, local M6 services named after it. A lot of the colliery leases were signed with the family.

Interesting comments from DM, I suppose one could say that the 2nd Industrial Revolution enabled the coal industry, while the coal industry fed it.

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Posted: 20/08/2020 09:57:02
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Industry depends, ultimately, on power, ore and water.

It isn’t usually possible to divert water flows with any degree of success - the Soviets tried it, and look how THAT turned out, in the Aral Sea.

Iron ore is finicky stuff to transport any distance, in bulk. It is possible, but it isn’t easy.

Coal, on the other hand, is pretty much indestructible. It doesn’t take up water, oxidise or fuse under pressure and vibration. You CAN transmit electricity long distances, successfully if not easily.

You also need to ship the resulting production.

So, the first industrial revolution involved identifying locations where ore and water were present, coal could be transported there over relatively short distances, by canal or horse tramway and the resulting production carried to ports or used locally. The SECOND industrial revolution involved transporting coal and production, over longer distances using the railways.
IP: 81.96.123.121 Edited: 20/08/2020 09:58:38 by derrick man
royfellows

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Cannock coalfield project
Posted: 20/08/2020 14:27:17
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Correction to my earlier. Hilton Main is now Tarmac Hilton Main. Looks like an aggregate processing plant. I could take a look.
I can make myself invisible like a ninja, the modern equivalent of the ninja suit of invisibility being a HiViz
Laugh

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sinker

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Cannock coalfield project
Posted: 20/08/2020 15:03:09
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royfellows wrote:



I can make myself invisible like a ninja.



WOW. 75 year old invisible Ninja having a glass of wine and then doing the splits over a convector heater.... Blink

Sounds like a scene from a Tarantino movie....




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Yma O Hyd....
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