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Author Cwm Cynfal copper mine
dtyson

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Joined: 17/11/2008
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Cwm Cynfal copper mine
Posted: 06/12/2019 17:28:03
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A nearby farmer to the Cwm Cynfal copper mine has let UCET know that the proposed hydro scheme will probably decimate the workings and he is asking for people to write to the National park opposing the project. Details below:

Hallo
I found your post on the Cwm Cynfal copper mine. I live in Cwm Cynfal at Cwm Farm and i am writing to ask for your help.

The Cynfal craig including the waterfall and the ravine including the area where the copper mine is located is owned by 3 brothers who live 15 miles away. They bought the land with the explicit intention of putting a hydro scheme on the waterfall. They submitted one planning application a year ago which was rejected. They have now submitted another application. I am hoping that you will write to the National Park to oppose this.
The main reason I am hoping you will oppose the scheme is that the construction of the scheme will almost certainly result is serious damage to the Cwm Cynfal ravine and may result in the destruction of the copper mine itself. They will need to build a road all down the west side of the ravine in order to construct both the pipeline adn the turbine building next to the river. That road needs to be 3.6m wide and have a construction corridor of 6m. The exisiting track is nowhere near that wide so they will have to rock-peck or blast their way down the Cwm. I am seriously concerned that any blasting could cause a catastrophic collapse of the copper mine tunnels. The route of the road crosses directly over the Hobbit Hole.

The Applicants are oblivious of the presence of the copper mine and less than entirely honest about having to construct a road at all. They are claiming they will construct the turbine house by coming along the access road to my house but that cannot happen as the road is too narrow and too overhung for the size of wagon they will need and and they have no right of access across Cwm Farm land. They know this but haven’t changed their method statement to accurately describe the construction process. They did do an acrcheological survey but the consultants failed to recognise most of the visible remains as mine and have mis-labled them quarry remains - including the hobbit hole.

At the moment there are only two of us raising objections based (among other things) on the risk to the ravine side and the copper mine and it would really help if you could contribute as they would listen toy you. There is no one who knows more about this copper mine than you do!

This is the link tot he planning application:
planning.snowdonia-npa.gov.uk/swiftlg_sn...ch%20Results%3C/a%3E
The closing date for comments is next Friday 13 December.

If you have the energy to read any of the documents then try the Method Statement and the Archaeology Assessment.

And thank you!
And any time any of you fancy exploring the mine do knock on my door - a free cup of tea is always on offer.
Best wishes and thanks - if it wasn’t for your web site and post I would never have known about the copper mine

Pat
IP: 92.27.142.161
Morlock

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Joined: 31/07/2008

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Cwm Cynfal copper mine
Posted: 06/12/2019 18:18:14
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Start mentioning things like 'land stability survey' to the planning people, always worth a try in an area of historic mining activity. IP: 81.151.118.29
royfellows

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Joined: 13/06/2007
Location: Great Wyrley near Walsall

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Cwm Cynfal copper mine
Posted: 06/12/2019 18:28:10
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I cannot do any good with the link

I tried searching but all I can find is an old application from 1995.

--

'' as rare as a Cwmystwyth padlock''
IP: 92.24.17.225 Edited: 06/12/2019 18:35:58 by royfellows
dtyson

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Cwm Cynfal copper mine
Posted: 06/12/2019 19:01:23
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The link is wrong. Planning app is probably: NP5/59/495B

Dave
IP: 92.27.142.161
royfellows

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Cwm Cynfal copper mine
Posted: 06/12/2019 20:54:34
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Found it:

https://planning.snowdonia-npa.gov.uk/swiftlg_snpa/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayUrl?theApnID=NP5/59/495B&backURL=%253Ca%2520href%253Dwphappcriteria.display%253FpaSearchKey%253D428407%253ESearch%2520Criteria%253C%252Fa%253E%20%3E%20%3Ca%20href%3D%27wphappsearchres.displayResultsURL%3FResultID%3D518335%2526StartIndex%3D1%2526SortOrder%3DAPNID%2526DispResultsAs%3DWPHAPPSEARCHRES%2526BackURL%3D%253Ca%2520href%253Dwphappcriteria.display%253FpaSearchKey%253D428407%253ESearch%2520Criteria%253C%252Fa%253E%27%3ESearch%20Results%3C%2Fa%3E

--

'' as rare as a Cwmystwyth padlock''
IP: 92.24.17.225
euros

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Cwm Cynfal copper mine
Posted: 07/12/2019 10:50:25
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Ffestiniog Town Council have already noted that there are the remains of the copper mine, and have written to the County Council to warn them of this.

https://planning.snowdonia-npa.gov.uk/swiftlg_snpa/MediaTemp/17212-78270.pdf
IP: 5.80.94.100
JohnnearCfon

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Joined: 22/12/2005
Location: Sir Caernarfon

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Cwm Cynfal copper mine
Posted: 07/12/2019 11:25:36
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It is strange how the councils insist everything is bi-lingual (ie not in English only) yet it doesn't seem to apply the other way round! Angry IP: 86.171.202.190
alex17595

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Cwm Cynfal copper mine
Posted: 07/12/2019 11:27:17
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euros wrote:

Ffestiniog Town Council have already noted that there are the remains of the copper mine, and have written to the County Council to warn them of this.

https://planning.snowdonia-npa.gov.uk/swiftlg_snpa/MediaTemp/17212-78270.pdf


Google translate:

I refer to Planning Application No. NP5 / 59 / 495B Land near Pont yr Afon Gam and Cwm Farm, Ffestiniog The Town Council discussed the application last night and received information which may be of vital importance to the project. According to the Copper Mines of Wales book (not sure of the author) there is an old copper mine on site with the area full of old underground mines. The Town Council proposes that an underground inspection of the area is required to ensure the safety of those working on the scheme and also road safety. Thank you for your co-operation.
IP: 86.148.0.110
royfellows

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Location: Great Wyrley near Walsall

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Cwm Cynfal copper mine
Posted: 07/12/2019 11:52:01
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Last night i studied the documentation, the one worth a read is the archaeological report near the bottom of the list.

They miss the open adit completely and describe the shaft subsidence as a "quarry scoop". The presence of a mine shaft or shafts poses H and S issues for contractors working on site. As does the possibility of surface workings on the lode back. The remains of a building they dont even associate with mining.

It has been many years since I explored the adit. I have a vague memory of it being a bit awkward to get to, being in good condition, and leading to small workings in the roof with a collapse, probably from the filled in shaft.

Anybody been in there recently?

--

'' as rare as a Cwmystwyth padlock''
IP: 92.24.17.225
John Mason

Joined: 22/09/2008

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Cwm Cynfal copper mine
Posted: 08/12/2019 19:53:01
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Not for a long time! I recall signs of high-grading a mostly poor lode with a few better bits, but it's not a clear memory. Bick states that the lode was locally very rich in chalcopyrite. IP: 86.136.213.242
royfellows

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Cwm Cynfal copper mine
Posted: 09/12/2019 14:58:29
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From BGS memoirs



(click image to open full size image in new window)

I am mindful to take a ride up there and do a photo survey of the underground. The adit is easy missed if you dont know where it is.

--

'' as rare as a Cwmystwyth padlock''
IP: 92.24.24.50
Moorebooks

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Joined: 28/11/2007
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Cwm Cynfal copper mine
Posted: 09/12/2019 15:34:52
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This should be reported to Peter Claughton the NAMHO Officer who deals with Mine conservation and underground archaeology

Mike
IP: 77.96.189.154
dtyson

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Cwm Cynfal copper mine
Posted: 09/12/2019 16:39:12
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Moorebooks wrote:

This should be reported to Peter Claughton the NAMHO Officer who deals with Mine conservation and underground archaeology

Mike

Done.
Dave
IP: 92.27.142.161
BertyBasset

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Joined: 13/12/2007
Location: Caernarfon, North Wales

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Cwm Cynfal copper mine
Posted: 09/12/2019 16:56:43
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Seems to me looking at the documentation that the affect of altered humidity due to abstraction on the bryophyte population in the gorge is key.

There was a failed attempt at a hydro scheme about 5 years ago. https://naturalresources.wales/permits-and-permissions/permit-applications-consultations-and-decisions/current-consultations-applications-to-abstract-or-impound-water/licensing-decision-statements/hydro-schemes-uk-limited/?lang=en
IP: 185.19.209.50 Edited: 09/12/2019 16:57:06 by BertyBasset
NeilC

Joined: 08/11/2010
Location: Brecon

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Cwm Cynfal copper mine
Posted: 09/12/2019 18:09:09
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Moorebooks wrote:

This should be reported to Peter Claughton the NAMHO Officer who deals with Mine conservation and underground archaeology

Mike


Done by myself also. Sent to a number of other friends / colleagues within the mining history community as well.
I will be submitting objections on behalf of the Welsh Mines Society.

Please use the following link to submit any objections -

https://planning.snowdonia-npa.gov.uk/swiftlg_snpa/apas/run/wphmakerep.displayURL?ApnID=NP5/59/495B

Neil
IP: 88.97.105.182 Edited: 09/12/2019 18:27:29 by NeilC
BertyBasset

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Cwm Cynfal copper mine
Posted: 09/12/2019 19:05:39
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Doing similar with flora oriented acquaintances. This is clearly the wrong scheme for the wrong place. IP: 86.161.130.204
NeilC

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Cwm Cynfal copper mine
Posted: 09/12/2019 20:54:06
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I have uploaded a comments/objections PDF from the owner of Cwm Farm.

It can be found on the right hand side of the home page under 'Latest Mine Exploration Documents - Cwm Cynfal Hydro Scheme comments' or in 'View Personal Files' under my name.
IP: 88.97.105.182
dtyson

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Cwm Cynfal copper mine
Posted: 09/12/2019 21:52:25
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I think Pat's assessment is accurate and pretty damning!

I hope to go to the site and take a few photos tomorrow and get accurate grid references of the features. I may try and venture into the adit and do quick survey if I can get down OK - I'll fix a hand-line rope first. The weather isn't slated to be very nice tomorrow though...

Dave
IP: 92.27.142.161
sinker

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Cwm Cynfal copper mine
Posted: 09/12/2019 22:06:12
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dtyson wrote:

I think Pat's assessment is accurate and pretty damning!

I hope to go to the site and take a few photos tomorrow and get accurate grid references of the features. I may try and venture into the adit and do quick survey if I can get down OK - I'll fix a hand-line rope first. The weather isn't slated to be very nice tomorrow though...

Dave


Well written and particularly well researched.
I've built a few of these small hydro stations and associated intake weirs over the years and this one appears to be more trouble than it's worth. They must know something I don't. I certainly couldn't think of a more awkward location.
I'll ponder it some more when I have more time; I'd also like to take a look at the site out of interest....sounds like some strongly worded objections are needed here!
I imagine we'd be invited to tender for the job if it's ever granted planning permission....there's only 3 or 4 companies locally who do this kind of work and I'm one of them. One of the others is about 200 yards down the valley Wink
Let me know your thoughts Dave, I won't have time to have s look until next week Thumb Up


--

Yma O Hyd.... ta-ta ty hâ... IP: 148.252.128.95
davel

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Cwm Cynfal copper mine
Posted: 09/12/2019 22:53:32
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sinker wrote:

... Let me know your thoughts Dave, I won't have time to have s look until next week

email sent

Note that representations on this planning application should be made by 13th December.

Dave
IP: 89.168.166.175
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