Mine exploration, photographs and mining history for mine explorers, industrial archaeologists, researchers and historians Mine explorer and mining history videos on YouTube Connect with other mine explorers on Facebook
Tip: do not include 'mine' or 'quarry', search by name e.g. 'cwmorthin', use 'Sounds like search' if unsure of spelling

Advanced Search
'Sounds like search'
Quick a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z
Tip: narrow down your search by typing more than one word and selecting 'Search for all words' or 'Exact search'

Search for any word
Search for all words
Exact search
Tip: narrow down your search by typing more than one word and selecting 'Search for all words' or 'Exact search'

Search for any word
Search for all words
Exact search

Mine Exploration Forum

Jump to page << < 1 2 > >>
Author Picking Brains please
nice but damp

Joined: 04/01/2012
Location: West Wales

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Picking Brains please
Posted: 04/02/2018 00:30:56
Reply |  Quote
Hi All...Need to pick peoples brains regarding a "New" site at Bwlchyfadfa, south of Talgarreg in Ceredigion.....Grid reference of Adit is SN4393049160.

A neighbour of mine who owns the quarry above me has informed me of an adit or tunnel, which is on his land which he has no history for.
The history he does have is extremely scant, although we are not sure at present what this tunnel constitutes at present.
I have arranged to go and see it and hopefully enter it on Tuesday 6th, however, to his knowledge, no one has been in it since at least the 1940's, and those that did have now sadly passed on, so no first hand accounts of it.

So......My reason for posting....Has anyone on here heard anything about such a tunnel or adit in the small corner of Ceredigion?......if so......what?...Any help would be really appreciated, many thanks in advance
Tim Smile
IP: 88.144.36.197
Morlock

Avatar of Morlock

Joined: 31/07/2008

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Picking Brains please
Posted: 04/02/2018 05:41:33
Reply |  Quote
Marked as 'old level (lead) on the 1905 maps.

Near centre/bottom of map.

http://maps.nls.uk//view/101608495
IP: 86.186.83.209 Edited: 04/02/2018 06:02:19 by Morlock
euros

Joined: 25/08/2009
Location: CELLAN

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Picking Brains please
Posted: 04/02/2018 09:07:15
Reply |  Quote
On the Old Maps of 1889 there is no old level marked.(https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/242500/251500/12/100696) Yet on their 1905 map it is shown as old level-lead. Perhaps when they were quarrying at the quarry they found a seam of lead ore?
Have also looked at the tithe maps and there is no further information on that.
IP: 86.152.212.38 Edited: 07/02/2018 17:32:20 by euros
nice but damp

Joined: 04/01/2012
Location: West Wales

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Picking Brains please
Posted: 04/02/2018 12:29:45
Reply |  Quote
Thank you Morlock for your reply Smile
I shall be heading in there on Tuesday, so will take photo's etc to see whether it goes anywhere.....

I have tried various search engines to see if I could generate some mention of it, but to no avail as yet. You finding this on the 1905 map is brilliant..

CAn I be cheeky and ask whether you could point me in a direction of where to look for info on this, as I have searched AN and couldn't uncover anything, plus, have looked through Aber Uni stuff and again, came up with nada !....any help would be appreciated Thumbs Up

Cheers
Tim
IP: 88.144.36.197
nice but damp

Joined: 04/01/2012
Location: West Wales

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Picking Brains please
Posted: 04/02/2018 12:39:27
Reply |  Quote

Picking Brains please
Posted: 04/02/2018 09:07:15
On the Old Maps of 1889 there is no old level marked.(https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/242500/251500/12/100696) Yet on their 1905 map it is shown as old level-lead. Perhaps when they were quarrying at the quarry they found a seam of lead ore?


Thanks Euros........Again, finding the information is a pain..especially with incredibly poor internet connection here!!!
Ok...With what you have said re the Quarrying possibly uncovering a Lead seam appears to be a good train of thought!....I will be speaking with the Land Owner, who has had the Land in their Family for many years and try and go with that theory as it seems the most obvious now.

This is why I love these forums....there are many helpful people out there who have got excellent knowledge...Thanks for sharing Thumb Up

Cheers
Tim
IP: 88.144.36.197
euros

Joined: 25/08/2009
Location: CELLAN

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Picking Brains please
Posted: 04/02/2018 13:00:00
Reply |  Quote
G W Hall in his book "Metal Mining in South Wales" does not mention this mine at all. The nearest are at Llangrannog and at New Quay! Ceredigion Archives(http://archifdy-ceredigion.org.uk/ )may have some information or try:-https://www.ceredigion.gov.uk/oldicm/index.cfm?articleid=17040

There is some information on the quarry- in modern use at:-
http://www.letterfromaberystwyth.co.uk/tag/gwarallt-quarry/
IP: 86.152.212.38 Edited: 04/02/2018 13:09:19 by euros
nice but damp

Joined: 04/01/2012
Location: West Wales

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Picking Brains please
Posted: 04/02/2018 14:04:55
Reply |  Quote
euros
Picking Brains please
Posted: 04/02/2018 13:00:00
G W Hall in his book "Metal Mining in South Wales" does not mention this mine at all. The nearest are at Llangrannog and at New Quay! Ceredigion Archives(http://archifdy-ceredigion.org.uk/ )may have some information or try:-https://www.ceredigion.gov.uk/oldicm/index.cfm?articleid=17040

There is some information on the quarry- in modern use at:-
http://www.letterfromaberystwyth.co.uk/tag/gwarallt-quarry/


Thanks Euros.......Well, it looks like I am going to have do it the old fashioned way and get my feet moving Roll Eyes......And actually go along to the Archives in person and research.
I'm sure that somewhere, there will be a record of a Trial Level being sunk to look for lead.
You guys have already given me a great head start on it by narrowing down a timescale plus, giving a good indication of a probable reason for the adit too.

As yet, I haven't been in the entrance of the Adit....hopefully, on Tuesday, I will glean more info on a site visit.
The Land owner, who is a very knowledgeable guy regarding the Quarry itself and local history, may have some more info, especially when I relate to him what you guys have suggested and shown with the old maps.
Since moving here in April last year (I am the current Landlord of the pub marked on the old map as Castell Howell Arms) he has found out that I am a Caver / Mine enthusiast and approached me about entering it to find out more.

The little I know at present, is that the Tunnel entrance was dammed to provide a small head of water for a Hydro Pump. Again, from what I have been led to believe, no one has been in the tunnel since at least the 1920's....So am not sure what I will find on Tuesday.
I am expecting it to be a very short blind trial level however, there has been mention of narrow gauge rails coming from the entrance, so I would assume that it was enough of a concern to lay tracks(?) ....Anyways..I really appreciate your help so far.
I see from your Profile you are based in Cellan (Lampeter)....If you are passing Pontsian or Talgarreg, then please call in to the Pub (Tafarn Bach) and introduce yourself..I have a beer with your name on it as thanks Thumbs Up

In the meantime, I will update as soon as possible with pics etc of what happens on Tuesday

MAny thanks
Tim
IP: 88.144.36.197
Llanigraham

Joined: 01/01/2017
Location: Llanidloes

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Picking Brains please
Posted: 04/02/2018 14:48:50
Reply |  Quote
RailMaponline shows nothing about a short line in that area, and the guy who researches that site is very thorough, and has picked up some very obscure, short lines. I expect if there was one there it was just to shift mine waste out of the adit.

Certainly doesn't show on any of the old OS maps either.

Good luck with your exploration and I look forward to any photos.

(Nice pub by the way, I've been in it. The lady who made a new hood for my car is down that way)
IP: 78.32.183.65
euros

Joined: 25/08/2009
Location: CELLAN

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Picking Brains please
Posted: 04/02/2018 18:19:30
Reply |  Quote
"I see from your Profile you are based in Cellan (Lampeter)....If you are passing Pontsian or Talgarreg, then please call in to the Pub (Tafarn Bach) and introduce yourself..I have a beer with your name on it as thanks"

Thanks for the invitation. When I'm going that way I will certainly call in.
IP: 86.152.212.38 Edited: 06/02/2018 17:27:30 by euros
Morlock

Avatar of Morlock

Joined: 31/07/2008

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Picking Brains please
Posted: 05/02/2018 06:23:52
Reply |  Quote
nice but damp wrote:

CAn I be cheeky and ask whether you could point me in a direction of where to look for info on this, as I have searched AN and couldn't uncover anything, plus, have looked through Aber Uni stuff and again, came up with nada !....any help would be appreciated Thumbs Up

Cheers
Tim


I've tried a few searches but all to no avail, best of luck with your explorations.
Look forward to your report after you visit.Smile
IP: 86.186.83.209
nice but damp

Joined: 04/01/2012
Location: West Wales

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Picking Brains please
Posted: 06/02/2018 15:17:10
Reply |  Quote
Hi Folks.......Have just recently arrived back from investigating this site.
Unfortunately, couldn't get in there today however, have taken a couple of photo's and a short video of what I did find! (have got to now work out how to post up photo's on here and video Smile )

I shall post to the Facebook page as well, so it may be easier to see them on there. Once done I shall show a link.

The entrance to the level is completely blocked at the moment, with only a narrow letterbox to see through at current ground level. The letterbox was silted / blocked, so that the water contained in the level had dammed up and almost sumped the narrow entrance.
With a little firkle and scraping with boots, we managed to drop the water level enough for me to lay flat in the stream and see in with head torch and camera, although not perfectly. From what I have been told in conjunction with what I have seen, the water level inside the tunnel must be approx 4' deep if not possibly more, as the outside ground has been built up above the level of the spoil heap......!
It was a cold day today with a bit of snow, so have decided to go back when the weather warms. The Land owner is happy to clear the entrance enough for me to get in and he and a friend intend doing some clearing in the next few days. Once that is done, I should be able to lay flat and get myself in.
From the little I could see on the video, photo's and by eye, it appears to be a fairly roomy tunnel. the head torch beam appears to pick out the blind end, but I cannot be certain at the moment whether the end of the tunnel is flooded to roof or whether the tunnel turns right or left. This I will be able to verify when I get in.
Sorry that I haven't got much more to offer today, but I will be returning in the near future to investigate further Smile

Many thanks
Tim
IP: 88.144.36.153
royfellows

Avatar of royfellows

Joined: 13/06/2007
Location: Great Wyrley near Walsall

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Picking Brains please
Posted: 06/02/2018 17:04:42
Reply |  Quote
JCB?

Worth it for the landowner who would end up with an interesting feature it the entrance was completely cleared.

However, if there is ochre it would need to be contained within a dam due to pollution issues.
Beware of wetsuit entry into high water as there could be artefacts under the water, not to mention flooded winzes, and of course possibility of bad air.

I remember one in Cornwall I explored years ago. Chest deep water and I could see the vein that the level was following in the roof, had an uneasy feeling. Yes I was right. Treading carefully suddenly no floor in front of me.

--

..................a proper engineer not a marketing man.
IP: 88.108.12.160
nice but damp

Joined: 04/01/2012
Location: West Wales

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Picking Brains please
Posted: 06/02/2018 17:39:56
Reply |  Quote
Thanks for the heads up Roy Smile

I have ventured into a few adits over here in the past years and have encountered exactly what you described....Hidden flooded winzes and various artefacts / obstructions etc. Luckily, so far, no bad air.....and hope not to!!

Don't think there is any Ochre around here, although I may be wrong.....There is a small deposit of Sandstone (hence the Quarry) which is overlying the local Shale.....
The dit is being used for a water supply (has been used for at least 60 years) so will have to be extremely careful not to disturb it too much.
The land owner (user of the water) is very keen to find out more about it, so will hopefully have some answers soon.
Although I have been doing this for many years now, I do still rate myself as a novice, as my knowledge is somewhat limited....but I am always willing to learn and heed advice......Of which I appreciate what you have written Smile
I shall keep you all updated on what I uncover .

Tim
IP: 88.144.0.140
towim

Avatar of towim

Joined: 19/10/2008
Location: North Wales

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Picking Brains please
Posted: 06/02/2018 19:30:14
Reply |  Quote
Sounds like a fantastic project!

I moved away from Llandysul 3 years ago! Would have loved to have help.

Good luck and I hope you find a gold plated steam engine!

--

Ironing 2 miles deep into a system? you obviously dont understand.
IP: 86.181.165.144
nice but damp

Joined: 04/01/2012
Location: West Wales

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Picking Brains please
Posted: 06/02/2018 20:49:10
Reply |  Quote
Hi all

Have posted up photo's and a couple of short videos on the Facebook page.......Hope you can all view them there as I'm still struggling with uploading them to here at the mo...Smile

Cheers
Tim
IP: 88.144.36.74
nice but damp

Joined: 04/01/2012
Location: West Wales

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Picking Brains please
Posted: 06/02/2018 20:50:20
Reply |  Quote
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10210513629948037&set=pcb.10156323272940798&type=3&theater&ifg=1
IP: 88.144.36.74
royfellows

Avatar of royfellows

Joined: 13/06/2007
Location: Great Wyrley near Walsall

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Picking Brains please
Posted: 06/02/2018 21:02:13
Reply |  Quote
Looks interesting.
Water looks clean so I dont see any pollution issues.

Now I know a professional geologist who would be interested in looking in there when it is opened up. Even if its just a trial it would be of geological interest. He writes things up as well.


--

..................a proper engineer not a marketing man.
IP: 88.108.12.160
B Clarke

Joined: 17/04/2016

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Picking Brains please
Posted: 06/02/2018 21:22:37
Reply |  Quote
This is the small adit in the grounds of a farm house for sale or recently sold? if so i visited the adit in the early 2000s the quarry owner was quite keen to find out were it went, the owners of the farmhouse at the time were mr and mrs plod, who were keen to find out about the adit but not allow entry, when i pointed out the landowner above had a right of entry they got aggressive so i left them to it, the adit at the time was concrete blocked 2ft in height so to gain entry was a matter of stepping over the blocks,

the adit appears on a 1840 map described copper trial abandoned with a very small dump, it looked tear drop shaped typical coffin level style, if it was a adit to a copper lode it was a cross cut rather than a drift, the quarry floor today is not original its been back filled and now a dressing cutting floor, my assumption at the time was it was a trial to see if the stone continued at depth it gives a considerable back, i did pass on my findings to WMS and WMPT at the time .
IP: 92.3.39.215
nice but damp

Joined: 04/01/2012
Location: West Wales

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Picking Brains please
Posted: 07/02/2018 14:05:01
Reply |  Quote
B Clarke
Picking Brains please
Posted: 06/02/2018 21:22:37
This is the small adit in the grounds of a farm house for sale or recently sold? if so i visited the adit in the early 2000s the quarry owner was quite keen to find out were it went, the owners of the farmhouse at the time were mr and mrs plod, who were keen to find out about the adit but not allow entry, when i pointed out the landowner above had a right of entry they got aggressive so i left them to it, the adit at the time was concrete blocked 2ft in height so to gain entry was a matter of stepping over the blocks,

the adit appears on a 1840 map described copper trial abandoned with a very small dump, it looked tear drop shaped typical coffin level style, if it was a adit to a copper lode it was a cross cut rather than a drift, the quarry floor today is not original its been back filled and now a dressing cutting floor, my assumption at the time was it was a trial to see if the stone continued at depth it gives a considerable back, i did pass on my findings to WMS and WMPT at the time .


Hi B Clarke......Thanks for the info.
From what you have written it does seem that we are talking about the same Adit.

Could I ask you to contact me regarding info on who to contact at the WMS / WMPT who could point me at the information, or do you still have the information that you found out?..Any collaboration would be greatly appreciated Smile

Looking at the site entrance etc, there have been a few trees down which have caused roots balls to shift. This has brought down quite a lot of debris in and around the lead up to the entrance and to each side, but not on the entrance itself.
Looking closely at the adit blocking, it does seem to have been this way for many years, although how many I can't say, but if you went there in the early 2000's then that gives me some good indication of how long it's taken to get like that.

I will talking with the landowner again today and will mention this to him. The people who are residing there at the present, are very amenable and friendly, although I was accompanied by the landowner so that could have made a difference!

In my thinking of why the Adit was driven, I did consider various reasons; the thought of accessing the lower Sandstone Bed did figure, but I discounted it on pure logistics. Being where the entrance is, there is no easy way of extracting the stone to some means of transportation. The valley is very steep with a sizeable stream / river (the Clettwr) winding through with no topographical features being able to get to any roads or tracks.
So that led me to the thought of other trials ie; Lead....Wheter someone found some trace of lead in the quarrying or something similar.
The thoughts of driving an adit to drain the flooded quarry was also mooted, but again, the position and direction would have to be perfect....Although that still remains to be uncovered by entry........But, your supposition of a means to ascertain the depth of the Sandstone in the quarry does have a ring to it. It would stand to reason that they would want to know how far down the stone was and whether the quality was worth investing in....so thanks for that Thumb Up

But...There is one conundrum (not only one but shed loads with this site Smile ).....and that is Dates...The quarry was started approx 1850...which I have to check on with the landowner, who has researched the history of it in detail....And yet the Adit is shown on the 1840 map?....mmmmm The plot thickens Smile
Do you remember where you found that map?.....I would love to see it and am struggling to find it .

Many thanks
Tim
IP: 88.144.36.74
B Clarke

Joined: 17/04/2016

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Picking Brains please
Posted: 07/02/2018 14:16:37
Reply |  Quote
the WMS and WMPT have a presence on this site they will be well aware of this thread, the quarry could of been started long before 1850,especially if they were after some thing else not stone, as for the map the 1840 map was not a OS map it covered the whole of wales i dont have it now but some one on here will no doubt direct you too it, the information i found out about the adit ive posted it all here, i have nothing more to tell, the WMS and WMPT showed little interest at the time, i was involved with both groups at the time, dates for mines are constantly being researched and under revision IP: 92.3.32.237
Jump to page << < 1 2 > >>
Safety LED Miners Caplamps Moore Books: Specialist Books I.A. Recordings: Mining and Industrial History DVDs Starless River - Caving Store Explore a Disused Welsh Slate Mine
Disclaimer: Mine exploring can be quite dangerous, but then again it can be alright, it all depends on the weather. Please read the proper disclaimer.
© 2005 to 2015 AditNow.co.uk
Top of Page