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Author Help needed dog down mine in Coatbridge
selinarufus

Joined: 18/01/2016

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Help needed dog down mine in Coatbridge
Posted: 18/01/2016 22:48:48
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Thank you for accepting me on your forum please let me introduce myself I am volunteer for ww.doglost.co.uk. Whilst I am a volunteer for dog lost this is also a personal case to me because this is a friends dog that I am asking for help with.

Saffy's press release details that are currently being issued via social median are below but just so you know how this is relevant to this forum tonight we have discovered on a coal mining map that there are at least three shafts very close to where she went missing. Because she literally disappeared from her owners sight in 3-4 seconds we are convinced she has gone down a shaft. Is there anyone out there that could help us investigate these shafts further tomorrow please. If you read Saffy's story below after being found with such severe burns we never thought she would survive, for her owner to not know where she is now is just tearing her apart. We would be so grateful for any help you could offer please.

Appeal for the public’s help in Coatbridge as concern grows for missing dog that was previously abused

Concern is growing after a previously abused rescue dog went missing in Coatbridge on Sunday.

The public are being asked for their help with sightings and information after Sapphire, a young female lurcher, went missing while out a walk on Sunday (January 17) at Kilgarth Landfill Site, Gartgill Road, Coatbridge.

Sapphire – affectionately known as Saffy – had one of the most horrific starts in life and for her to now have gone missing after finally finding her new loving home is heart-breaking.

When Sapphire was originally rescued by Hope Rescue in 2013 she was found staggering the streets barely able to walk, with injuries so terrible her finders initially thought she had been hit by a car.

It turned out Sapphire had suffered horrific abuse with third degree burns to a large area of her body – thought to have been caused by a chemical being thrown over her. There was a huge outpouring of love and generosity towards her story and appeal when she was first found – and Sapphire even made it to the cover of Dogs Today magazine.

Her new owner is frantic that if someone finds her they won’t report it due to her scars – thinking they have been caused by recent mistreatment.

After months of recovery in a Hope Rescue foster hoome, Sapphire was adopted by Kat Norrby, from Coatbridge, where she has lived happily in a loving home with fellow rescue dog Pippa for two years.

Sapphire still bears the physical scars from the abuse – and large areas of her fur are missing – making her very distinctive. Owner Kat is worried people won’t report her as found, in case they think she will be returned to a life of abuse.

Kat said: “I need my girl back home with me where she belongs. She is very much loved and missed. I am so worried that someone will find her and keep her thinking she has been recently abused.

“Her rescue story touched so many people in the beginning and she grew a real fan club who have followed her progress since – they all want her back home safe and sound .

“I really hope someone has picked her up and is looking after her – but I’m concerned that someone will think she has been abused recently and not report her as found. With the temperatures dipping below freezing she needs to be at home snuggled on the sofa where she belongs.”

Sapphire, who is mainly black with white on her chest and rear toes, is microchipped, wearing an identification tag and is spayed. She is heavily scarred with large patches with no fur, she has missing front teeth and a broken tail from an old injury. When she went missing she was wearing a red and grey Three Peaks collar.

Due to her background she will be very scared and frightened and unlikely to come easily to someone she doesn’t know.

Saffy's owners telephone number to call is 07947 672491.
Or we have a facebook page set up where we are organising her search if you can help please get in touch. Thank you for reading. Obviously we do ask for discretion when talking to Saffy's owner as she is already very upset. Thank you all in advance for reading this.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/572035692951888/
IP: 77.100.68.119 Edited: 18/01/2016 22:51:12 by selinarufus
robnorthwales

Joined: 21/05/2008
Location: Denbighshire, North wales

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Help needed dog down mine in Coatbridge
Posted: 18/01/2016 23:10:45
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Please, please, please :

Do NOT permit any volunteers or other well-meaning people to enter any shafts, tunnels, etc., especially if coal workings are known to be in the area.
Fatalities can, and do, happen in such cases. Abandoned coal mines are inherently dangerous, far more so than a lot of 'normal' mines.
While there are a few people with the knowledge (and kit) to safely enter such old workings (some of who will be on here) most of joe public has no idea of what they may be heading into.

--

Madness takes its toll, please carry exact change
IP: 91.125.210.246
The Fresh Prince of Portreath

Joined: 05/08/2015

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Help needed dog down mine in Coatbridge
Posted: 18/01/2016 23:11:19
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Most coal shafts are capped, I gather. It's something to do with the Coal Board being a national thing, where as other minerals are owned privately.

Best of luck with the search.
IP: 81.140.40.222
BertyBasset

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Joined: 13/12/2007
Location: Caernarfon, North Wales

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Help needed dog down mine in Coatbridge
Posted: 18/01/2016 23:29:10
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Yes, absolutely, abandoned coal mines are deadly. Keep well out. There will be an unpredictable cocktail of explosive methane, no oxygen due to reaction with pyrites, and quite likely CO2 and CO, asphyxiant and poison respectively.

Abandoned coal mines should only be entered by trained personnel with breathing apparatus and monitoring equipment.

Scottish fire brigade have in the past gone down shafts and the like after missing persons. Not sure if they do that for animals, but that may be best starting point.


Robin
IP: 86.149.2.187
ncbnik

Joined: 04/11/2012

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Help needed dog down mine in Coatbridge
Posted: 18/01/2016 23:34:20
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The Fresh Prince of Portreath wrote:

Most coal shafts are capped, I gather. It's something to do with the Coal Board being a national thing, where as other minerals are owned privately.

Best of luck with the search.


Please take note of Rob's warning; in any case "most coal shafts" doesn't mean all. Uncharted and long abandoned shafts and 'bell pits' can open up due to subsidence or failure of ancient wood capping; without expert knowledge, equipment and experience to use it, these are death traps.
IP: 95.144.78.191
The Fresh Prince of Portreath

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Help needed dog down mine in Coatbridge
Posted: 18/01/2016 23:43:10
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She made it clear that these are "on a map".

Presumably NCB were "on the case" with those?
IP: 81.140.40.222
Morlock

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Help needed dog down mine in Coatbridge
Posted: 18/01/2016 23:47:11
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A quick search also mentions oil shale and iron ore mines in the general area, these are also high risk places. IP: 81.129.23.215
robnorthwales

Joined: 21/05/2008
Location: Denbighshire, North wales

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Help needed dog down mine in Coatbridge
Posted: 18/01/2016 23:59:47
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following on from my earlier post, I've messaged the lady who made the original post (Selina) directly on Facebook too, asking her to read the replies on here.

--

Madness takes its toll, please carry exact change
IP: 91.125.210.246
selinarufus

Joined: 18/01/2016

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Help needed dog down mine in Coatbridge
Posted: 19/01/2016 09:32:18
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Thank you all for your replies, we don't want to go down the mine ourselves, we fully appreciate how dangerous this could be and are very grateful for your warnings. Hence my post for help on here.

What advice can you give for finding experts that can help us to see if Saffy has fallen down one of the shafts.
IP: 77.100.68.119
rhychydwr

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Joined: 09/06/2007
Location: Cwmparc, Rhondda, South Wales, UK.

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Help needed dog down mine in Coatbridge
Posted: 19/01/2016 09:50:13
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IF! the dog fell down a shaft it is most likely DEAD! If not you will here it barking. Only then do you let the experts descend. Bad air is guaranteed.

--

Cutting coal in my spare time.
IP: 82.71.20.254
selinarufus

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Help needed dog down mine in Coatbridge
Posted: 19/01/2016 10:14:42
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I beg to differ, we have had many successful dog rescues in Cornwall from mines but I see that posting here for help was a mistake and rather than getting the help that was asked for which was the contact for a local group that may be able to help and advise I am just going to get a load of negativity that the dog owner does not need to see. This wouldn't be a problem if someone here hadn't posted the link to this topic on Saffy's facebook group.

Thanks for nothing.
IP: 77.100.68.119
Daggers

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Help needed dog down mine in Coatbridge
Posted: 19/01/2016 10:18:08
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There is a dog rescue service in Derbyshire, I know the guy who does it, but he will not enter coal mines due to the nature of there stability and usual contents of poisonous gases.

Like someone mentioned before if your dog as fell down a shaft and you cannot hear a whimper or a bark then it is more than likely the dog did not survive the fall.

Do not attempt to try and rescue the dog without seeking professional advice from a trained person who is capable of descending such a shaft and also contact the National Coal Authority for information on these shafts, as mentioned before all coal mine shafts were capped by the NCA/NCB in the 80's and 90's so if the shafts are open it could mean that they are not coal mines but something else.



--

Steve (Daggers) Dalgliesh PDHMS, WMRG, DCC, Welsh Mines Society
IP: 86.189.14.107 Edited: 19/01/2016 10:19:31 by Daggers
lozz

Joined: 03/08/2012
Location: Cornwall

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Help needed dog down mine in Coatbridge
Posted: 19/01/2016 10:25:17
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If a dog falls down a shaft it doesn't always follow that all is lost, quite often they can get caught on a ledge, old sollar, ladder platform, old junk etc, this has happened several times in Cornwall and the dogs survived, however, the deeper the fall the less the chances of survival, don't give up on the dog until you know for sure.

Good luck in your search.

Lozz.
IP: 5.80.76.44
Morlock

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Help needed dog down mine in Coatbridge
Posted: 19/01/2016 10:58:32
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Is this, (posted elsewhere) the last known position of the dog?

NS 71894 67499
IP: 81.129.23.215
ttxela

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Help needed dog down mine in Coatbridge
Posted: 19/01/2016 11:01:07
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Reading this there seems some ambiguity as to whether someone has actually located an open shaft.

If so perhaps lowering a camera down may be the first step? Although I'm sure someone will have already thought of this!

Usual proviso's about even approaching the edge of an open shaft though - would still need to be someone who knows the score, roped up etc.
IP: 188.39.178.242
robnorthwales

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Help needed dog down mine in Coatbridge
Posted: 19/01/2016 11:11:18
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selinarufus wrote:

I beg to differ, we have had many successful dog rescues in Cornwall from mines but I see that posting here for help was a mistake and rather than getting the help that was asked for which was the contact for a local group that may be able to help and advise I am just going to get a load of negativity that the dog owner does not need to see. This wouldn't be a problem if someone here hadn't posted the link to this topic on Saffy's facebook group.

Thanks for nothing.


Selina, Cornwall is mostly tin or other hard metal mines. Totally different from coal mines. The risks are completely different, the layouts of the mines are different, the stability of the mines are different. We have lots of old lead mines in North Wales, and plenty of dogs (and other livestock) have been recovered safe and well after falls into them.

Just because people on here (and some of them really are experts in their particular fields) are telling you something you don't want to hear, it does not mean they are being negative or unhelpful.
The very last thing we want to see is some well-meaning, but ill-equipped person dying in old coal workings. Most rescue organisations will not enter such workings.


--

Madness takes its toll, please carry exact change
IP: 81.137.224.3
BertyBasset

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Help needed dog down mine in Coatbridge
Posted: 19/01/2016 11:16:08
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I'm afraid the only option I can see are authorities that are insured for coal mine work. And the only two I can think of are the fire brigade and Coal Authority. No amateur organisation/individual would be insured. IP: 217.9.203.195
BertyBasset

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Help needed dog down mine in Coatbridge
Posted: 19/01/2016 11:36:35
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There's these which might be worth contacting for pointers...

https://www.minesrescue.com/article/contact-us
IP: 217.9.203.195
Cuban Bloodhound

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Help needed dog down mine in Coatbridge
Posted: 19/01/2016 15:47:58
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I might take a look at the mining remains in the area tomorrow. IP: 80.177.163.61 Edited: 19/01/2016 15:52:29 by Cuban Bloodhound
selinarufus

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Help needed dog down mine in Coatbridge
Posted: 19/01/2016 16:42:23
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We have a map and can certainly pin point where the dog was last located. For her to be in one place, the owner to look away and then look back and the dog to have disappeared with no sign of her and no sightings whatsoever in 3 days in my experience with www.doglost.co.uk this is very unusual and normally in these cases the dog is either injured and caught up on something (fence/tree branch etc) or has gone down an adit or mine. We have searched all fences and aeras where she could be caught up and still no sightings, this just leaves the mines.
At first I didn't realise there were any mines in the area. 24 hours after the dog disappeared someone came up with a coal mine map and there are three-4 mine shafts almost immediately where the dog disappeared If someone wants to look at these we have them on public display on the facebook group but obviously may be hard to find amongst all the other posts in Saffy's group.

If anyone wants to friend me on facebook I can then tag you directly where the maps are showing Saffy's last location and the location of the shafts.

Thank you for your help.

What we really need is to locate someone with camera equipment locally or someone with experience of locating these mine shafts without us losing helpers that go looking for them. Hence me posting here asking for help.

I really do appreciate the difference between the tin mines in Cornwall and the coal mines in this area but we have saved dogs from ledges and if Saffy is injured I am fully aware that time is dwindling and even if we can give her owner closure at this point then that is better then her never knowing what has happened to saffy. Local press has been to visit this afternoon and I believe National press are also picking up on this story because of saffy's history in case anyone has picked her up thinking she has been cruelly treated because of her scars but that still misses out the possibility that a mine shaft could have been covered in snow and she has gone down it.
IP: 77.100.68.119
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