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Mine Exploration Forum

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Author Rampgill Level roof fall
PeteJ

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Joined: 12/05/2008
Location: Frosterley, Durham

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Rampgill Level roof fall
Posted: 21/11/2015 14:57:31
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The roof is collapsing at the junction of the Horse level with Rampgill Shaft. A piece of sheet steel is laid on to of the fall. If visiting, please count the rocks (if any) on the sheet and report in this forum.

On Wednesday 17th Nov,. there were six rocks on the sheet. All were removed.

This is a very dodgy place and a collapse here could totally block the level.

--

Pete Jackson Frosterley 01388527532
IP: 146.199.204.224
royfellows

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Joined: 13/06/2007
Location: Great Wyrley near Walsall

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Rampgill Level roof fall
Posted: 21/11/2015 16:53:21
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Anything left over from Norpex that could be moved down there to pre empt any fall?

I mean steel support or whatever.

--

May the Dragon shine upon you. Aaarrrrrrrr......
IP: 88.105.216.153
PeteJ

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Rampgill Level roof fall
Posted: 21/11/2015 20:42:17
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Yes - several air pipes and u shaped brackets. This is a very large roof collapse and potentially dangerous to be under. IP: 146.199.204.224
John Lawson

Joined: 09/12/2010
Location: Castle Douglas Dumfries & Galloway

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Rampgill Level roof fall
Posted: 21/11/2015 21:27:22
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Peter, I have often pointed out that this area, is very dangerous. The roof looked always as it it was going to tumble down.
Since it is close to the gate and the rise to boundary.cross vein I always had a concern, that the interesting features here could cause explorers to linger in a potentially dangerous area.
In my OPINION this is the section of the vein which is referred to in the reports that the width of galena was so large that the LLC could not obtain timber long enough to span the ore body and had to seat the timbers they had in solid ore!
If I am correct, since all this ore has long gone, but it might account for the instability in this area.
IP: 31.54.15.77
legendrider

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Rampgill Level roof fall
Posted: 22/11/2015 09:52:18
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Keep us posted on any intended work parties or material requirements, Pete; happy to help.

MARK

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festina lente IP: 86.156.169.99
Mr Mike

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Location: Bury - In The Laboratory

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Rampgill Level roof fall
Posted: 22/11/2015 10:27:02
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Do you think it is feasible to short it up - wide metal plates against the roof and vertical wooden or acrow props?


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Mr Mike www.mineexplorer.org.uk
IP: 88.104.5.154
PeteJ

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Rampgill Level roof fall
Posted: 22/11/2015 15:35:18
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Yes.

It is a long carry from the entrance, would have to be a campaign of more than one day.
Putting the supports in would be tricky - the person putting the support in might need to be attached to a long rope which another person could haul in very rapidly.
One suggestion is that the supports are placed around the existing perimeter of the collapse hole. This would be slightly safer. The theory is that it might prevent the hole widening to the full width of the junction.

--

Pete Jackson Frosterley 01388527532
IP: 146.199.204.224 Edited: 22/11/2015 15:39:20 by PeteJ
moorlandmineral

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Rampgill Level roof fall
Posted: 22/11/2015 19:10:54
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The roof is platy at that point, the danger is of it 'self stoping' a series of slabs dropping, undermining those above, and so forth... I have seen this happen years ago in East Greenlaws Mine. The trick is to simply stop the chain reaction starting and soon, ideally a couple of accro props, providing support from the floor, Ive definitely got one spare, happy to supply it if would help??? IP: 109.158.91.77
PeteJ

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Rampgill Level roof fall
Posted: 23/11/2015 15:45:19
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Offer accepted IP: 146.199.204.224
PeteJ

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Rampgill Level roof fall
Posted: 23/11/2015 16:03:51
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See the image in my new posting - apologies - I have lost the ability to get this post into the correct subject - perhaps someone can shift it for me! IP: 146.199.204.224
SimonRL

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Joined: 27/11/2005
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Rampgill Level roof fall
Posted: 23/11/2015 16:07:36
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(click image to open full size image in new window)

Like that?

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my orders are to sit here and watch the world go by
IP: 194.28.139.41
PeteJ

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Rampgill Level roof fall
Posted: 23/11/2015 16:08:47
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Yes! Merci

Vicky Robinson has sent this image, taken in October. Vicky and Alan had placed two rocks on the steel sheet - to hold it in place - so deduct two from my earlier count!
IP: 146.199.204.224 Edited: 23/11/2015 16:10:35 by PeteJ
royfellows

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Rampgill Level roof fall
Posted: 23/11/2015 16:42:47
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Its worth looking up into the roof cavity seen when facing Rampgill Shaft, and considering what you see together with the evident fracture lines in the top of the arching extending in both directions along the main level.
It takes little imagination to feel a compulsion to get out of Dodge.

--

May the Dragon shine upon you. Aaarrrrrrrr......
IP: 88.105.216.153
John Lawson

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Rampgill Level roof fall
Posted: 23/11/2015 19:25:41
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Peter I assume the picture, accurately shows the fall in the arching?
As Roy posted clearly someone needs to look into the void to see, the condition of the roof at this point.
However I am speculating that the wall could be probably, drilled to take 10 mm re-bar and used as a support to help stabilise the arching.
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legendrider

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Rampgill Level roof fall
Posted: 23/11/2015 19:36:15
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Given that there appears to be a generous width of level, would it be possible to build up a stone plinth or sandbag revetment underneath?

My concern would be that the whole mess might drop if we start to tinker with it!

I'd really like a look-see if you're thinking of a recce (a la recent Caplecleugh work)

MARK

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festina lente IP: 86.155.160.25
Morlock

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Rampgill Level roof fall
Posted: 23/11/2015 19:47:50
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Looks like it needs some serious steel work!

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Mercifully free of the ravages of intelligence.... IP: 86.175.147.23
moorlandmineral

Joined: 08/12/2007

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Rampgill Level roof fall
Posted: 23/11/2015 19:49:38
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PeteJ wrote:

See the image in my new posting - apologies - I have lost the ability to get this post into the correct subject - perhaps someone can shift it for me!


I will grease up this acro anyway, if your going to shore the bloody thing up we are stupid enough to go stand in there and help!!
Let us know if you plan a work party!!Big Grin
IP: 109.149.48.149
PeteJ

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Rampgill Level roof fall
Posted: 23/11/2015 20:00:53
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Thank you to all for your comments. Yes - the hole is worse than it looks. When you look up you can see that there is evidence of probably two layers of arching, most of which has dropped. Above is a jammed mass of large stone fill. Movement exacerbated by the new water introduced by the Minco drilling a little to the east of here. There is not enough stone in the area to build a buttress. One option might be to build a framing along the line of the main loco way on Rampgill vein, to protect the main route in the event of a catastrophic collapse. Of course, it might not move any more, but it looks pretty deadly to me. This is a bad place and steelwork would be the ideal, but....a lot of steel required. A parallel supporting plan is to try and stop the water getting in from the Minco drill hole - talking to an expert about whether this is a dream or a possibility. IP: 146.199.204.224
moorlandmineral

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Rampgill Level roof fall
Posted: 23/11/2015 20:17:27
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The wide span would make shoring the whole section very difficult, NORPEX steelwork where the door was is robust being in a relatively narrow dig.
The danger of touching that is should it start to move it could simply pan anything underneath, be it steel or human.
Ideally something aimed at keeping access through the level should the worst happen would be the best bet, again though, short of steel butting against the brickwork, the risks are that should things start dropping any space for rubble to fall could prove disastrous for any protection placed in the level....
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moorlandmineral

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Rampgill Level roof fall
Posted: 23/11/2015 20:34:55
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legendrider wrote:

Given that there appears to be a generous width of level, would it be possible to build up a stone plinth or sandbag revetment underneath?

My concern would be that the whole mess might drop if we start to tinker with it!

I'd really like a look-see if you're thinking of a recce (a la recent Caplecleugh work)

MARK


I've thought about this and agree with Mark.... Heavy duty sand or rubble sacks laid at right angles to the direction of the horse level fill em and build up some kind of embankment will protect the horse level quite effectively and will absorb a hell of a lot of impact too.... Theres no shortage of rubble either...Smile
IP: 109.149.48.149
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