Mine exploration, photographs and mining history for mine explorers, industrial archaeologists, researchers and historians Mine explorer and mining history videos on YouTube Connect with other mine explorers on Facebook
Tip: do not include 'mine' or 'quarry', search by name e.g. 'cwmorthin', use 'Sounds like search' if unsure of spelling

Advanced Search
'Sounds like search'
Quick a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z
Tip: narrow down your search by typing more than one word and selecting 'Search for all words' or 'Exact search'

Search for any word
Search for all words
Exact search
Tip: narrow down your search by typing more than one word and selecting 'Search for all words' or 'Exact search'

Search for any word
Search for all words
Exact search

Mine Exploration Forum

Jump to page << < 1 2 > >>
Author Screw or Wire Gate Krabs?
jona

Avatar of jona

Joined: 07/01/2012
Location: criccieth

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Screw or Wire Gate Krabs?
Posted: 13/12/2014 14:18:22
Reply |  Quote
Having mixed opinions from cavers/climbers.which is best for caving cowstails? Screw or wire gates??



Tweak: Title Amended - RV

--

Everything I like is either immoral, illegal or fattening!!!
IP: 82.19.131.200 Edited: 13/12/2014 14:44:25 by (moderator)
RJV

Avatar of RJV

Joined: 16/03/2008
Location: Cleveland

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Screw or Wire Gate Krabs?
Posted: 13/12/2014 14:45:01
Reply |  Quote
Just a bog-standard straight or wire gated krab should be fine.

Some people like screwgates. Most I think don't. They're just something else to jam and its not what I personally would want to contend with caught at a rebelay on a wet pitch with numb fingers!

But each to their own!
IP: 82.19.131.200 Edited: 13/12/2014 14:49:23 by RJV
Barney

Avatar of Barney

Joined: 01/12/2005
Location: Warwickshire

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Screw or Wire Gate Krabs?
Posted: 13/12/2014 14:53:48
Reply |  Quote
A 'bent gate' such as the Petzl spirit Is designed for use as on cowstails. The bend guides the rope in as pressure is applied to the Krab towards the rope, therefore quick and efficiend. A screwgate just hampers the proceedure, not good if you are traversing and reclipping after bolting points!

--

http://www.downandoutimages.com
IP: 81.132.147.109
Mr Mike

Avatar of Mr Mike

Joined: 09/06/2007
Location: Bury - In The Laboratory

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Screw or Wire Gate Krabs?
Posted: 13/12/2014 15:14:13
Reply |  Quote
I know screws gates can be considered as a pain, but quite often if your doing a lot of twisting around on maneuvers, the added security of a krab done up can save having a pant filling episode. If you don't want to use the screw gate, have it screwed right down, but if you need that extra safety, use it.

Many a time I have had to climb out of shaft or sump where the rope is attached at floor level in the hole, reaching the top, clipping in on cowtail and then brute force over the scaffold pole and over, the krab gets twisted, pressed against other gear... no way would I want to do that on a snap gate.

--

Mr Mike www.mineexplorer.org.uk
IP: 79.70.74.177
ebgb

Joined: 07/05/2012
Location: weardale

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Screw or Wire Gate Krabs?
Posted: 13/12/2014 15:20:10
Reply |  Quote
twist lock krabs are good where there's a risk of rope compression opening the gate, and no threads to get jammed with mud

Screw gates everytime for fixed rigging, but about my person a simple quickdraw krab or a twist lock for me

--

mid life crisis? buy an 80 year old wooden trawler!- http://bf494.co.uk
IP: 92.27.11.9
NewStuff

Avatar of NewStuff

Joined: 26/07/2010
Location: NE Wales

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Screw or Wire Gate Krabs?
Posted: 13/12/2014 15:29:02
Reply |  Quote
Despite having plenty of bent and straight (most new, all serviceable, I plan on a little climbing at some point) gate snap krabs in a gear bag, I still replaced my old cowstails with screw gates, and steel ones at that. I don't use the screwlock unless needed, but it's there if I do. I prefer steel, and I don't mind the weight penalty.

--

Searching for the ever elusive Underground Titty Bar.
IP: 86.146.157.178 Edited: 13/12/2014 18:06:57 by NewStuff
RJV

Avatar of RJV

Joined: 16/03/2008
Location: Cleveland

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Screw or Wire Gate Krabs?
Posted: 13/12/2014 15:44:37
Reply |  Quote
Mr Mike wrote:

no way would I want to do that on a snap gate.

But in fairness this is a commonplace manoeuvre yet there aren't piles of dead cavers and mine explorers at the bottom of each pitch despite the fact that (from general observation), a large proportion of people don't appear to use screwgates or other types of locking carabiners. Certainly in that sort of situation I'd hope to still have my chest jammer attached and ideally my hand jammer somewhere if the rigging allowed so the cowstail would only be one point of contact rather than the sole safety net.

But suppose it's all down to what each individual is happy with.

There is a case for screwgates or similar for activities of a more technical nature but I suspect that is not what the OP is looking to do.

Does anybody have any cave rescue stats for incidents of people plummeting after using normal krabs?
IP: 82.19.131.200
Mr Mike

Avatar of Mr Mike

Joined: 09/06/2007
Location: Bury - In The Laboratory

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Screw or Wire Gate Krabs?
Posted: 13/12/2014 15:58:08
Reply |  Quote
When I started SRT, I got my first rig from Bat Products, Tony Jerratt (RIP), he advised screw gates. I've been doing SRT for 11 years now and most of that has been with COMRU members, only screw gates in their eyes due to safety, I'm happy with screws gates and they have never been a problem for me. As I said, you don't have to use them on easy speedy maneuvers, but when you need the security, they are there.

As said, "it's all down to what each individual is happy with."


--

Mr Mike www.mineexplorer.org.uk
IP: 79.70.74.177 Edited: 13/12/2014 15:59:13 by Mr Mike
sinker

Avatar of sinker

Joined: 13/12/2010
Location: North Wales.

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Screw or Wire Gate Krabs?
Posted: 13/12/2014 16:26:26
Reply |  Quote
How about a compromise? I use an alloy screw-gate on my short cowtail, the one that I use for "hanging about" on at rebelays/deviations or for hanging on pulleys on steel wire (CRTT etc) and an alloy quick draw wire-gate on my long cowstail, for clipping in quickly at pitch heads prior to ab'ing, traverses etc...and also for clipping in quickly to someone who needs a swift "extra pair of hands". Never managed to get on very well with twist-gates though...twist/pull/squeeze all at the same time...too much for my brain to handle Laugh

--

Can ya dig it? Who's the cat that won't cop out when there's danger all about....? Shaft! IP: 86.166.108.129
Graigfawr

Joined: 04/11/2009

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Screw or Wire Gate Krabs?
Posted: 13/12/2014 17:38:19
Reply |  Quote
Steel screw gates for my 33 years of SRT. Most of the time they are permanently unscrewed and act effectively as snapgates but I value the facility of being able to screw them up for added security when occasion demands - e.g. protracted faffing about at a belay where, in the back of my paranoid mind, I would fear a snapgate possibly twisting open during odd jiggling around.

Additionally, by standardising all my mining and caving krabs as screwgates, I can swop them around with impunity and, in extremis, can even use cowstails krabs for other uses without worrying about, say, using a snapgate on a belay.

In the last decade I've been increasingly using oval maillons for rigging as they offer a considerable cost saving (and incidentally a weight saving for those who count grams - I don't).

My rock climbing krabs are mostly snapgates save for a selection of screwgates for rigging.

For an alarming account of what can occur (albeit very rarely) with a snap gate during SRT: http://welshrandomadventures.blogspot.co.uk
IP: 92.14.157.182
pwhole

Avatar of pwhole

Joined: 22/02/2011
Location: Sheffield and the Peak District

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Screw or Wire Gate Krabs?
Posted: 13/12/2014 18:24:09
Reply |  Quote
I use a snapgate on my middle, ultrashort cowstail, as that's always loaded vertically when in use, or under tension on traverses and I have screwgates on my two 'normal' cowstails. I don't necessarily screw them both up, but it's nice to have the option, for the reasons outlined in that post above - having read through the story, and having seen a krab do this on a faffy rebelay, I'm generally inclined to try and screw at least one up if I'm to be there any length of time, or have to do some vigorous manouever.

I can't see any advantage in not having extra security available, just for the sake of a few grams. My rope-access kit, with steel krabs festooned, etc., probably weighs about 10 kilos, so it's not really an issue in SRT, especially where a wet rope in a bag is usually my biggest issue. If the screwgate jams then I won't screw it up, but that's not a common occurrence, even after very muddy digging trips.
IP: 81.174.241.13
royfellows

Avatar of royfellows

Joined: 13/06/2007
Location: Great Wyrley near Walsall

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Screw or Wire Gate Krabs?
Posted: 13/12/2014 18:27:14
Reply |  Quote
Mr Mike wrote:


Many a time I have had to climb out of shaft or sump where the rope is attached at floor level in the hole, reaching the top, clipping in on cowtail and then brute force over the scaffold pole and over, the krab gets twisted, pressed against other gear... no way would I want to do that on a snap gate.


Now I wonder where this could possibly be?
Laugh

--

The expert in anything is really the true beginner, by becoming an expert so the knowledge for self advancement is acquired.
IP: 88.105.250.178
Hammy

Joined: 14/08/2010

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Screw or Wire Gate Krabs?
Posted: 13/12/2014 20:12:52
Reply |  Quote

http://www.cncc.org.uk/technical-group/warning.php


Are these karabiners a solution?

http://youtu.be/jkraPv-I_Bk
IP: 2.26.80.28
Tamarmole

Joined: 20/05/2009
Location: Tamar Valley

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Screw or Wire Gate Krabs?
Posted: 13/12/2014 21:06:31
Reply |  Quote
Hammy wrote:


http://www.cncc.org.uk/technical-group/warning.php


Are these karabiners a solution?

http://youtu.be/jkraPv-I_Bk


I recently bought one of these Grivel twin gate crabs specifically to try out on cowstails. So far I have only used it in anger once and my initial observations are that they are a bit of faff. That said with a bit more practice they might prove to be more user friendly. At this stage I am not wholly convinced.
IP: 109.157.70.177
NewStuff

Avatar of NewStuff

Joined: 26/07/2010
Location: NE Wales

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Screw or Wire Gate Krabs?
Posted: 14/12/2014 00:56:57
Reply |  Quote
Screwgates were a bit of a faff to me at first, until I got used to them. I suspect the same will apply to these. I may ask Santa for a pair...

--

Searching for the ever elusive Underground Titty Bar.
IP: 86.146.157.178
Morlock

Avatar of Morlock

Joined: 31/07/2008

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Screw or Wire Gate Krabs?
Posted: 15/12/2014 03:20:39
Reply |  Quote
"Searching for the ever elusive Underground Titty Bar."

NewStuff, Edgbaston Tunnel on Saturday nights when the hen party trip boats are running, think that's about the only one.Big GrinOff Topic

Back on topic. Just looked at wire gate crabs.Oh My God
IP: 81.129.23.98
Wormster

Avatar of Wormster

Joined: 15/08/2006
Location: Top of the Mendip Hills

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Screw or Wire Gate Krabs?
Posted: 15/12/2014 06:57:19
Reply |  Quote
Snapgates on my left hand side short and long cowstails and my THIRD cowstail (which happens to have my ascender on it) has a screwgate. Best of both worlds!

--

Better to regret something you have done - than to regret something you have not done.
IP: 86.191.151.89
Mr Pete

Joined: 26/01/2008
Location: Gateshead

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Screw or Wire Gate Krabs?
Posted: 15/12/2014 12:56:46
Reply |  Quote
Screw gate every time, do you what to take the risk when it all goes pair shaped? IP: 85.115.54.180
AR

Avatar of AR

Joined: 07/11/2007
Location: Knot far from Knotlow in the middle of the Peak District

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Screw or Wire Gate Krabs?
Posted: 15/12/2014 12:59:50
Reply |  Quote
I've got notchless screwgates on mine, notched krabs can occasionally snag on things, usually when you're right at the limit of your reach....

--

Oh God of Sarcasm, thanks for everything...
IP: 194.159.145.70
droid

Joined: 31/10/2010
Location: Tamworth

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Screw or Wire Gate Krabs?
Posted: 15/12/2014 14:08:02
Reply |  Quote
Snaps.

And follow the most important rule of SRT: maintain 2 points of contact at all times.

Never had a problem with a snap unclipping. If I feel there's a problem lurking I stick another point of contact on, second cowstail/top ascender safety line, whatever.
IP: 62.253.145.232
Jump to page << < 1 2 > >>
Safety LED Miners Caplamps Moore Books: Specialist Books I.A. Recordings: Mining and Industrial History DVDs Starless River - Caving Store Explore a Disused Welsh Slate Mine
Disclaimer: Mine exploring can be quite dangerous, but then again it can be alright, it all depends on the weather. Please read the proper disclaimer.
© 2005 to 2015 AditNow.co.uk
Top of Page