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Author Has Anyone any tips on emptying rubbish-filled mine shafts, please?
Trevooley

Joined: 11/02/2012

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Has Anyone any tips on emptying rubbish-filled mine shafts, please?
Posted: 05/06/2012 13:12:02
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I am the proud owner of Trevoole Counthouse and at present we are renovating it to a more habitable condition. But, in the garden, we have two shafts which are full of rubbish. We have been dangling on ropes to retrieve the rubbish and have managed to remove about 7-12 foot of rubbish from each, but it is getting a little more dodgey. We were wondering if a tripod and winch might be the way to go - so, please, any suggestions would be most welcome!
Regards, Suzanne.
IP: 89.242.82.145
RJV

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Joined: 16/03/2008
Location: Cleveland

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Has Anyone any tips on emptying rubbish-filled mine shafts, please?
Posted: 05/06/2012 13:23:33
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We've done a similar job recently. We tried various methods including a winch and found that the quickest, most versatile & least faffy method was simply to have a few blokes pulling on a rope. Over 50' and a different method would probably be needed though.

A means of keeping the rope plumb down the centre of the shaft is essential be it a tripod, a pulley attached to a rope fastened between a couple of trees or suchlike.

Oh, and if there's a chance that there might be a void beneath the rubbish, use a lifeline!

--

'Planning is just bad adventure.'
IP: 82.8.252.109 Edited: 05/06/2012 13:32:38 by RJV
royfellows

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Joined: 13/06/2007
Location: Great Wyrley near Walsall

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Has Anyone any tips on emptying rubbish-filled mine shafts, please?
Posted: 05/06/2012 13:43:25
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I would counsel a lot of caution as many 'filled in' shafts are anything but that. Usually its a load of old garbage on top of possibly an old fridge or even a motor car or collapsed mine timber, with nothing underneath.
They are opening up in increasing frequency all on their own, without any help at all.
Beware!

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'Not gods—Englishmen, which is the next best thing' Micheal Cain; 'The man who would be king'
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Trevooley

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Has Anyone any tips on emptying rubbish-filled mine shafts, please?
Posted: 05/06/2012 14:22:21
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Thanks for a swift response. We have been to the records office and found that the deepest shaft is just 10 fathoms (about 60'). There are others which are deeper elsewhere on the original sett.
As for the 'old car' holding up the rubbish, - I think we may have one of them! But, we have been told that a wooden cap was put on the mine-shaft - just as dodgey, I would imagine, if the rubbish has been on top for very long! We are thinking that the winch and tripod is the way to go. We will be in harnesses on ropes tied off to some good wide girthed, trees; so all being well, using the winch, we'll slowly expose the extent of the dumping!
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RRX

Joined: 27/11/2009
Location: Cornwall

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Has Anyone any tips on emptying rubbish-filled mine shafts, please?
Posted: 05/06/2012 14:23:23
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As Roy has said alot of filled shafts sometimes arnt, but its actually nice to hear of one being emptied in cornwall instead of filled :D, which shafts are you emptying?

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www.carbisbaycrew.co.uk Cornwall's Underground Site
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Trevooley

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Has Anyone any tips on emptying rubbish-filled mine shafts, please?
Posted: 05/06/2012 14:59:29
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The shafts we are hoping to empty are Leans and Beaters; They are access to the adit level which in turn accesses the other shafts.
Regards, Suzanne.
IP: 89.242.82.145
Mr.C

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Joined: 23/03/2008
Location: North Staffordshire

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Has Anyone any tips on emptying rubbish-filled mine shafts, please?
Posted: 05/06/2012 18:25:00
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Just one note of caution. If anything is dropped during clearance work, remember the one working in the shaft has nowhere to hide!
Keep loose stuff away from the top & make sure you've a competant & trustworthy banksman & don't overload kibbles.

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If things dunner change - the'll stop as the' are.
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John Lawson

Joined: 09/12/2010
Location: Castle Douglas Dumfries & Galloway

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Has Anyone any tips on emptying rubbish-filled mine shafts, please?
Posted: 05/06/2012 20:12:31
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Hi Folks,
As Roy will tell you I know a little bit about digging out vertical shafts.
You will need quite a bit of gear if you have any intention of descending over 30 ft or 10m.
When we reopened the hydraulic shaft at East Greenlaws mine, we first removed the top 15 ft using a contractors Hymac and then he sunk 10 m steel pipe into the ground to stabilize the shafts sides.
It was then comparatively easy to dig out the shaft within the tube.
This then begs the question what is the state of the sides of the shaft to be dug out?
If they are unstable you must reinforce them somehow.Timber is the obvious solution but there are others.
We erected a head frame and a pulley system to pull rubbish out, augmented by a Turfor and a petrol powered winch.
How much of this equipment you will need is up the diggers.
Water can also be a problem.At Greenlaws I solved the problem by using an angle-grinder to cut into a cast iron pipe which took water down to the hydraulic engine some 200 ft below surface. If you cannot get rid of thebwater then you will have to pump it,
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Dolcoathguy

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Joined: 21/05/2008
Location: Camborne, Cornwall

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Has Anyone any tips on emptying rubbish-filled mine shafts, please?
Posted: 06/06/2012 12:04:54
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Do you have a copy of any recent mining survey done on the property?
It should detail the condition of the shafts.
If not,might be worth seeing how much the professionals charge to determine the safety of the current capping and whether any more work is needed. (Carnon contracting is the one of the firms I have seen do this work).



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stuey

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Has Anyone any tips on emptying rubbish-filled mine shafts, please?
Posted: 06/06/2012 16:39:32
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This is riveting stuff. I'm well up for coming for a look. I'm over in Carharrack.

Note that when they say "Reached the 10 Fathom Level" they mean "10 fathoms below adit" which can be a fair bit further down that 10 fathoms.

I have Cornwall's Central Mines, The Southern District, by Morrison P126 in front of me. A few points:-

Old Engine Shaft 78F below adit, at 18F

"Stephens shaft" in the West of the Sett.

"Harvey's Shaft" immediately west of engine shaft. to 90F level.

Later references to 120F level.

1888, "Engine shaft had been timbered and fitted with a skip road to a depth of 11F". I wonder if this was proper close timbering for a shaft in crap ground, or whether it was just the standard shaft woodwork.

Dines differs from this a bit but has a huge amount of information about the levels and shafts. A good idea would be to have a look for other shafts which are open and try and get a water level, or at least see whether adit level is dry. It would be a great shame to dig a load of rubbish out and then find the water is backed up 10m above adit.

I am always about in the evenings and always have my potholing gear in the car.
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Gavin

Joined: 08/05/2011
Location: north yorkshire

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Has Anyone any tips on emptying rubbish-filled mine shafts, please?
Posted: 06/06/2012 18:29:35
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Can you post some pictures of the shaft please.

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GAVIN
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John Lawson

Joined: 09/12/2010
Location: Castle Douglas Dumfries & Galloway

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Has Anyone any tips on emptying rubbish-filled mine shafts, please?
Posted: 06/06/2012 20:11:55
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Shaft Capping,
This is really no great deal as reinforced concrete will easily hold the top in place.
Basically you need a manhole and cover this are readily available at you local builders merchant.
This has to be supported in the centre of the shaft, ideally on steel beams.
At Greenlaws we made a steel reinforced cage out of re-bar and tied it together in the usual way, making sure the outer edges were shuttered with timber, then made a non- stop pour until the top of the shaft was covered.
A second pour was necessary to key in the manhole to first lot of concrete. This was fixed by large rawl bolts to the manhole structure, when everything was shuttered up we made the second pour.
At Gutterby pit (West Cumberland), a manhole was fixed more or less directly onto a shaft made out of concrete-blocks, again concrete being used to join the two parts together.
Hope this helps.
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John Lawson

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Location: Castle Douglas Dumfries & Galloway

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Has Anyone any tips on emptying rubbish-filled mine shafts, please?
Posted: 06/06/2012 20:11:57
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Shaft Capping,
This is really no great deal as reinforced concrete will easily hold the top in place.
Basically you need a manhole and cover this are readily available at you local builders merchant.
This has to be supported in the centre of the shaft, ideally on steel beams.
At Greenlaws we made a steel reinforced cage out of re-bar and tied it together in the usual way, making sure the outer edges were shuttered with timber, then made a non- stop pour until the top of the shaft was covered.
A second pour was necessary to key in the manhole to first lot of concrete. This was fixed by large rawl bolts to the manhole structure, when everything was shuttered up we made the second pour.
At Gutterby pit (West Cumberland), a manhole was fixed more or less directly onto a shaft made out of concrete-blocks, again concrete being used to join the two parts together.
Hope this helps.
IP: 31.52.68.99
royfellows

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Joined: 13/06/2007
Location: Great Wyrley near Walsall

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Has Anyone any tips on emptying rubbish-filled mine shafts, please?
Posted: 06/06/2012 20:43:05
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A bit further to what John has added:

Beware of shafts with top sections made up of ginging which is sometimes supported on timbers.......which go rotten and you then have a shaft about to run in.

Small shafts can be capped rather cheaply, but whatever you do must of course be on solid rock. At Frongoch I excavated down to solid rock, shuttered it true to a spirit level, and then poured concrete. Later the concrete was built up with concrete blocks and backfilled. My cap was a mix of scaffold tubes concreted over and steel reinforced concrete lintels. A manhole was fitted as well as a drain as its in a hollow, and of course the obligatory bat entry.


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'Not gods—Englishmen, which is the next best thing' Micheal Cain; 'The man who would be king'
IP: 2.96.75.132
Gavin

Joined: 08/05/2011
Location: north yorkshire

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Has Anyone any tips on emptying rubbish-filled mine shafts, please?
Posted: 06/06/2012 20:48:59
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Can you tell me what "ginging" is please?

--

GAVIN
IP: 92.40.244.145 Edited: 06/06/2012 20:49:47 by Gavin
royfellows

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Has Anyone any tips on emptying rubbish-filled mine shafts, please?
Posted: 06/06/2012 21:10:37
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Gavin wrote:

Can you tell me what "ginging" is please?


It dry stonework used to make up the shaft through soft or loose ground. Sometimes this would be spoil extracted from the sinking of the shaft itself.

The worse case scenario I previously described would entail the mining people laying heavy square cut timbers on iron pegs driven into holes bored in the rock. The ginging would then be built up on the timbers and the surounding area backfilled. As the shaft deepened the ginging would sometimes be extended upwards so that spoil could be dumped in the immediate vicinity.

The death trap that immediately comes to mind is at Esgair Fraith. A small manway shaft adjascent to the run in Engine Shaft, and guess who once tried to abseil down it, and came back up a bit sharpish!

EDIT The timbers were as rotten as a pear, I could push my hand right into them.

--

'Not gods—Englishmen, which is the next best thing' Micheal Cain; 'The man who would be king'
IP: 2.96.75.132 Edited: 06/06/2012 21:12:08 by royfellows
stuey

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Has Anyone any tips on emptying rubbish-filled mine shafts, please?
Posted: 06/06/2012 21:32:23
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The ones I've seen in Cornwall (Ding Dong, St Ives, some others in Mounts Bay) have been built up from solid rock and are like circular arches, ie:- the shaft can't do 0>>o and drop in. I imagine Trevoole will be of the usual timber collar (probably gone with a big crater) into hard rock. I don't think there is an epic amount of soil around there.

Sadly, I can't post anything due to the computer not wanting to manipulate pictures, but there are a whole series of shafts on the 1909 6" map (not the 1888) and I reckon it would be prudent to find out what goes where. I think the adit (looking at the map, without going for a poke around) comes out in Pendarves woods....The ponds you can see on GE were not originally there, so it would be unlikely the adit is the source of them. Running in the other direction, there is a shaft (x2?) in the patch of ground across the field to the SW, however due to the lack of air shafts and anything resembling them, this is unlikely to be related, IMO.

Interestingly, I note the W's as in wells on the 1909 map. I wonder if these are shafts on one of the other lodes.....They (OS) sometimes confused the two.

There is a shaft in the field and 2 other possible sites NW from it which look interesting..... I imagine the obvious shafts are bins, but I gather the adit level is over 500m long, so there has to be something to look at.

Anyway, it's weirdy beardies tomorrow night, so I'll ask some people who will have had a rummage up there.
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scooptram

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Has Anyone any tips on emptying rubbish-filled mine shafts, please?
Posted: 06/06/2012 22:06:01
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there are 3 adits on the other side of the road if i remember but all run in with the help of some bang i was told, then again i might be wrong!

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mind that rock OUCH
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Dolcoathguy

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Joined: 21/05/2008
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Has Anyone any tips on emptying rubbish-filled mine shafts, please?
Posted: 07/06/2012 13:19:19
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I used to live up around Pendarves Mill in the 1990's and walked this area often, it is criss crossed with drainage ditches and small leats that fed the water mill, as well as a few natural springs...amongst all these could be an adit. I suspect the logical place for it to emerge would be near to the stream at Boteto.
Anyhow, Hamilton Jenks says" the adit follows the course of the river up from Boteto bridge into the moors above carwynnen with branches into the hart of pendarves whereon stands the cromlech"

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Is it safe to come out of the bunker yet?
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stuey

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Has Anyone any tips on emptying rubbish-filled mine shafts, please?
Posted: 07/06/2012 17:33:39
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I'm finding it quite difficult to remember where the valleys are. I poked around that area with a 1:25000 OS map which is quite good for adit hunting and found one in the woods which was run in.

Dines talks about "3 air shafts" on a NE running adit level. I'd say that either puts it in the stream or in the woods.

I know the adit which used to run through Wheal Pendarves (and is a big one) is choked in several places, as well as being run in on purpose. It's on the modern plan.
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