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Author Cwmorthin - FoC statement 28/09/11
ChrisJC

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Cwmorthin - FoC statement 28/09/11
Posted: 29/09/2011 20:09:13
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Corin wrote:

Amusing how the thread has diverted itself.

For some 3 years I have been asking for transparency from FoC.

I could expand but .................

...........



I think like alot of these things, FoC were proactive* and improved the situation at Cwmorthin. There's nothing to stop a differently constituted organisation negotiating with the landowner for a different agenda, whether that be transparency, or mineral extraction.

But until that happens, we are in the hands of FoC, and lets be honest, we do have access.

Chris.

*got off their arses and did something.
IP: 86.137.137.10
lab rat

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Joined: 21/01/2008

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Cwmorthin - FoC statement 28/09/11
Posted: 29/09/2011 20:51:37
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Jagman

Labrat's post was confirming Vanoords post!!!

Quote 'This appears to be an improvement on the recent situation, although the statement does seem a bit short of details on some issues that might perhaps have been better dealt with at this stage.' (Vanoord)

Quote 'Bo!!ocks and yep, I agree with Vanoord. Things need MORE clarity and need to be above board a LOT more than they are at the moment!!!!!!' (Labrat)

There is nothing underhand about confirming someone elses post. More clarity is needed for a lot of ventures, businesses etc.... maybe we should leave it at that Smile

--

Love it . . . :)
IP: 86.185.61.11
Ty Gwyn

Joined: 30/10/2009
Location: Lampeter

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Cwmorthin - FoC statement 28/09/11
Posted: 29/09/2011 20:58:51
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derrickman wrote:



that's the extractive industries for you, the clue is in the name. You take as much as you can and try to ensure that the whole issue doesn't collapse around your ears before you leave the area.

There were some pretty horrific things at Combe Down, in that respect. Mines like Dolcoath were often systematically "knacked", which is to say that the miners worked back towards the shaft pillar leaving the workings in a state of impending collapse. It's just part of the process.




Retreat Mining,to save money on repairs,
Makes ecconomical sense.
IP: 86.141.205.232
Llion

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Cwmorthin - FoC statement 28/09/11
Posted: 29/09/2011 21:24:28
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JohnnearCfon wrote:

derrickman wrote:

It has to be borne on mind that Cwmorthin was and remains, a mine and not a cave. If the landowner wishes to lease it for exploratory drilling, he would be quite justified in doing so; it was originally excavated for that reason, after all. It might be quite reasonably claimed that exploration and possible production was its proper function.


I have to agree with Derrickman on this (that must be a first!!! Big Grin ). It would seem that FoC have unwittingly prevented a mine reopening for it's original purpose. I am sure this will not please the locals one bit! I can hear the cries now "Englishmen playing miners stop new jobs being created in Blaenau".


Being a local, Llan, if ever the place got working again, somehow i dont think us "locals" would find employment up there !! Having worked at Oakeley i know what goes on; such as the latest about Bwlch Tongue

I'd rather Cwm was open for us and not for an outside company bringing in its own people to work it !!
IP: 92.4.111.164
Vanoord

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Cwmorthin - FoC statement 28/09/11
Posted: 29/09/2011 21:41:59
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I suspect that changes are needed; and that changes will come.

The future for Cwmorthin itself is certainly much more assured than it has been and as the dust settles, no doubt things will be clarified.

--

Filling space until a new signature comes along...
IP: 86.143.190.144
derrickman

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Cwmorthin - FoC statement 28/09/11
Posted: 29/09/2011 22:00:29
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[quote/] Being a local, Llan, if ever the place got working again, somehow i dont think us "locals" would find employment up there !! Having worked at Oakeley i know what goes on; such as the latest about Bwlch Tongue

I'd rather Cwm was open for us and not for an outside company bringing in its own people to work it !!



I've heard this sooooooo many times...

It's the nature of the industry. I first saw this in Aberdeen, when the oil industry rolled into town and wanted skills, not "local shops for LOCAL people" and it's been the same ever since. Some locals made money, most earned a hard dollar driving a shovel for a while, a few learnt something the industry wanted and joined the circus.

plus ca change




--

''the stopes soared beyond the range of our caplamps' - David Bick...... How times change .... oh, I don't know, I've still got a lamp like that. IP: 86.30.241.199 Edited: 29/09/2011 22:01:55 by derrickman
SimonRL

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Cwmorthin - FoC statement 28/09/11
Posted: 29/09/2011 22:07:27
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derrickman wrote:

Llion wrote:

Being a local, Llan, if ever the place got working again, somehow i dont think us "locals" would find employment up there !! Having worked at Oakeley i know what goes on; such as the latest about Bwlch Tongue

I'd rather Cwm was open for us and not for an outside company bringing in its own people to work it !!



I've heard this sooooooo many times...

It's the nature of the industry. I first saw this in Aberdeen, when the oil industry rolled into town and wanted skills, not "local shops for LOCAL people" and it's been the same ever since. Some locals made money, most earned a hard dollar driving a shovel for a while, a few learnt something the industry wanted and joined the circus.

plus ca change


Yes, but:

1, You're replying there to somebody who specifically said "Having worked at Oakeley i know what goes on" i.e. has worked in the industry; and:

2, Blaenau's slate industry isn't entirely dead and buried, Llechwedd is still working, Maen Offeren and Votty are being untopped, and Oakeley was working until 18 months ago. The skills are there.

--

You no worry about saftey. It no cause explosion yet.
IP: 95.148.0.198 Edited: 29/09/2011 22:10:17 by SimonRL
Vanoord

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Cwmorthin - FoC statement 28/09/11
Posted: 29/09/2011 22:10:14
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iirc the "Land Rover" working in Cwmorthin was by quarrymen who had been laid off as the industry faltered?

A lot of the history of the (north) Wales slate industry seems to involve miners striking out on their own after their employer has got rid of them. This may be no different to things that happened 30, 100 or 150 years ago.

--

Filling space until a new signature comes along...
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derrickman

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Cwmorthin - FoC statement 28/09/11
Posted: 29/09/2011 22:29:20
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simonrl wrote:

derrickman wrote:

Llion wrote:

Being a local, Llan, if ever the place got working again, somehow i dont think us "locals" would find employment up there !! Having worked at Oakeley i know what goes on; such as the latest about Bwlch Tongue

I'd rather Cwm was open for us and not for an outside company bringing in its own people to work it !!



I've heard this sooooooo many times...

It's the nature of the industry. I first saw this in Aberdeen, when the oil industry rolled into town and wanted skills, not "local shops for LOCAL people" and it's been the same ever since. Some locals made money, most earned a hard dollar driving a shovel for a while, a few learnt something the industry wanted and joined the circus.

plus ca change


Yes, but:

1, You're replying there to somebody who specifically said "Having worked at Oakeley i know what goes on" i.e. has worked in the industry; and:

2, Blaenau's slate industry isn't entirely dead and buried, Llechwedd is still working, Maen Offeren and Votty are being untopped, and Oakeley was working until 18 months ago. The skills are there.


since you open that particular can of worms, I'd say the most common problem with local labour is the reluctance to travel. Extractive industries have a core work force with key skills who are willing to travel, and those are the men they place the greatest value on.

There is always a certain intake from any given area, but most newchums don't take to the life. There are good and sufficient reasons for this, it isn't for everyone and frankly, some of the pipeline trash and oilfield tramps I've worked with over the years have been fairly dysfunctional people.

So, your comment is noted but I'd say that "having worked in at Oakley" and "being in the industry" may or may not be the same thing.

What are they doing at the working quarries?



--

''the stopes soared beyond the range of our caplamps' - David Bick...... How times change .... oh, I don't know, I've still got a lamp like that.
IP: 86.30.241.199
jagman

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Cwmorthin - FoC statement 28/09/11
Posted: 30/09/2011 02:02:43
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Vanoord wrote:

I suspect that changes are needed; and that changes will come.

The future for Cwmorthin itself is certainly much more assured than it has been and as the dust settles, no doubt things will be clarified.


What some people seem to have difficulty believing is that FoC has only ever had one basic principle.
That principle is simple, access for all without hinderance.
Nobody has to fill in an application or book a trip
Your face doesn't have to fit
You don't have to pay
You don't have to join a club
All you have to do is ask for the combination and go about your business.

We've worked hard for years to try and maintain that objective. I'll freely admit that much of the time everything else has been set aside in persuit of that single objective.

As far as I am concerned (and the other 3 maintain exactly the same principle) it is the single most important objective.

Despite what some people would evidently prefer that single core principle will remain.
It won't become a club or society and it certainly won't get into a position where access conditions are imposed (beyond the obvious common sense we ask everyone to apply)

There are no secret agendas, there are no cunning plans.

Are FoC perfect? No. Far from it.
But at the end of the day every single person here is free to visit and explore Cwmorthin and time they chose without hinderance. That has been the case for years and will remain so for years to come.

Way back when Lake Level ran in the land owner way quite content to see his liability absolved by gravity sealing the place, we persuaded him there was an alternative. We put the gate in at his insistance. Since that day everything we have done has been aimed at maintaing free access for all.
As far as I am aware there isn't one single time that any of you has been denied entry.

Now that a lease has been secured things can change a bit but kindly remember its a very recent change and things like the FoC website/ forum don't happen overnight and we all have work and life to get on with.
For those demanding instant answers, tough, you'll have to wait. We haven't worked many of those answers out yet.

The only thing that will not be allowed to happen is any change that could lead to restricted access. We've worked to long and to hard for that to be jepordised.

Foolishly we thought people might actually be happy that unrestricted access for all has been secured properly at long last.
IP: 94.1.174.151
steve turbo

Joined: 29/08/2009
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Cwmorthin - FoC statement 28/09/11
Posted: 30/09/2011 02:09:43
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there are a lot of people who are very happy for the f,o,cs great work .many thanks Thumbs Up IP: 92.40.59.46
viewer

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Cwmorthin - FoC statement 28/09/11
Posted: 30/09/2011 07:27:03
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i would like to echo steve's comments and thank the foc for keeping it foc!


from what i can see we wouldn't be having discussions about access without the foc. threads would be 'remeber the days when we had trips in cwmorthin'.

--

'Learning the ropes'
IP: 62.73.156.126
derrickman

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Cwmorthin - FoC statement 28/09/11
Posted: 30/09/2011 08:27:03
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reverting a bit closer to the OP, personally I'd much rather have access without involving myself in the sometimes complex and contentious internal politics of clubs.

If someone or some group are willing to take this on, that's fine by me.



--

''the stopes soared beyond the range of our caplamps' - David Bick...... How times change .... oh, I don't know, I've still got a lamp like that.
IP: 86.30.241.199 Edited: 30/09/2011 08:28:28 by derrickman
stevem

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Cwmorthin - FoC statement 28/09/11
Posted: 30/09/2011 09:53:06
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steve turbo wrote:

there are a lot of people who are very happy for the f,o,cs great work .many thanks Thumbs Up


What he said Thumbs Up

--

May the fleas of a thousand camels infest the crotch of the person who screws up your day and may their arms be too short to scratch.
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NewStuff

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Cwmorthin - FoC statement 28/09/11
Posted: 30/09/2011 10:14:45
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derrickman wrote:

reverting a bit closer to the OP, personally I'd much rather have access without involving myself in the sometimes complex and contentious internal politics of clubs.

If someone or some group are willing to take this on, that's fine by me.



I'll echo this. FoC seem to politically uninvolved, which is fine by me, the single worst aspect of this hobby is the clique's that are dotted around. The stated intent is to secure long-term access for all, and they seem to have done that. What's not to like? Even as a newbie, I could get the code with a minimum of effort and go for a wander. Arranging a lift to Blaenau is a far harder task!

--

In your mines, Taking your pictures...
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droid

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Cwmorthin - FoC statement 28/09/11
Posted: 30/09/2011 11:47:40
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ChrisJC wrote:


I think like alot of these things, FoC were proactive* and improved the situation at Cwmorthin. There's nothing to stop a differently constituted organisation negotiating with the landowner for a different agenda, whether that be transparency, or mineral extraction.

But until that happens, we are in the hands of FoC, and lets be honest, we do have access.

Chris.

*got off their arses and did something.



Quite so.

There always seems to be this animosity between those that do and others that wish they had done something.
IP: 81.108.217.215 Edited: 30/09/2011 11:49:47 by droid
steve turbo

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Cwmorthin - FoC statement 28/09/11
Posted: 30/09/2011 11:50:13
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NewStuff wrote:

derrickman wrote:

reverting a bit closer to the OP, personally I'd much rather have access without involving myself in the sometimes complex and contentious internal politics of clubs.

If someone or some group are willing to take this on, that's fine by me.



I'll echo this. FoC seem to politically uninvolved, which is fine by me, the single worst aspect of this hobby is the clique's that are dotted around. The stated intent is to secure long-term access for all, and they seem to have done that. What's not to like? Even as a newbie, I could get the code with a minimum of effort and go for a wander. Arranging a lift to Blaenau is a far harder task!
you got my number still ,then no problem Big Grin
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Wormster

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Cwmorthin - FoC statement 28/09/11
Posted: 30/09/2011 12:24:06
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Although I don't get to pla in North Wales (its been a couple of years since I last ventured into my old plaground) as often as I would like, I'm glad to see that the FoC are continuing to maintain FREE, unploitical access to one of the best mines in the area.

When the call for help went out, I was willing to give some of my time and money to the project, hopefully in the future I'll be able to continue!

--

Better to regret something you have done - than to regret something you have not done.
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stevem

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Cwmorthin - FoC statement 28/09/11
Posted: 30/09/2011 12:44:03
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I like this quote from 'A Few good Men' seems apt.
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way"

--

May the fleas of a thousand camels infest the crotch of the person who screws up your day and may their arms be too short to scratch.
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hymac580c

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Cwmorthin - FoC statement 28/09/11
Posted: 30/09/2011 20:32:24
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I have access to have a wonder around underground therefore I am happy and have no problems regarding.
It would be good to have the back vein incline working again, but with a small winch lifting one wagon.
Would be an idea to produce some slate producs using blocks of slate that are lying about to raise some money. Coasters, paper weights, table lamps etc. Smile

--

I'r pant yr rhed y dwr.
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