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Mine Exploration Forum

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Author Port Talbot & Tata
SimonRL

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Joined: 27/11/2005
Location: North Wales

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Port Talbot & Tata
Posted: 28/09/2010 13:24:55
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ChrisJC wrote:

simonrl wrote:

And Germans in the Lakes I believe [web link]


I think there's a difference, in that the German miners in the Lakes were 'High Tech' for the day, and brought with them the latest in mining technology.


Quite agree. And a point my post completely failed to make Blush
IP: 95.148.11.76
Ty Gwyn

Joined: 30/10/2009
Location: Lampeter

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Port Talbot & Tata
Posted: 28/09/2010 14:47:38
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Know nothing about the Lakes area regarding German workers.

But with South Wales coal mines it started mainly in the 50`s with Thyssen taking on contracts to sink pits,Abernant and Cynheidre.

Polish were working in the mines at the end of the 2nd WW

Hungarians,after the 50`s Up-rising

Spanish since thier Civil War,

Other nationalities tended to come over with Thyssen,Italians and Ukranians,all good grafters,well they had to be working for Thyssen,if you could`nt cut it,you were shipped back.
IP: 86.141.201.102
jagman

Joined: 11/03/2007

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Port Talbot & Tata
Posted: 28/09/2010 15:42:35
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Roger the Cat wrote:

christwigg wrote:

jagman wrote:


The maths aren't difficult and the career dole skivers will work when they get hungry enough.


Or more likely go on the rob.


Thats enough chaps.

Just have the good grace to accept that you have jobs and that many able, hard-working people at present do not.

Mediator - maybe it's time to pull the plug on this thread - not good for my blood pressure!


I specifically refered to career dole skivers.

No refernce to those who find themselves un-employed through no fault of their own but partiular to the large quantities of people who's preference is to sit at home on benefits.
You do not have to travel far in this country to come across people (by the thousand) who make no effort to seek employment.

Coal mining in Port Talbot can only be good news for this country, preferably employing local people but a mixed foreign and domestic workforce is better than no workforce.
Economically speaking it is splendid news, far better for this country to be providing some of its own energy needs rather than importing it
IP: 90.207.149.57
cobba

Joined: 25/10/2007
Location: cannock,staffs

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Port Talbot & Tata
Posted: 28/09/2010 21:36:40
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Hmmm. Lots of points of views here so here,s my half pennorth.
1. Margams been talked about for years.I seem to remember Tower Co-op were in talks about 10 years ago.Could it just be a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
2.Trained miners.Not enough left and where do you train them?I left the industry in 93(the first safe pit to close-bitter and twisted-Oh Yes).However in the last 6 months 2 ex colliers from here have applied to Daw Mill.So the demand from some men for a return is still there but how far will they travel or relocate?S.Yorks to Longannet and Daw Mill?
3.Foreign workers.Worked with the lot,Poles,East Europeans,West Indians,Hindus and Muslims all down one pit.I heard Yorks NUM were offering english lessons to Poles when Budge employed a few due to H&S communication fears.Historically the british are a mixture of races old and new.
4.Dole Scroungers.The new bogey set.I,ve spent 10 months on the dole during my working life and i worked cash in hand for 4 months at a nuclear power station and if i was in the same situation i,ll do it again.Sorry folks but needs must.Maybe a question to pose would be,Tata profits will go back to India as will all foreign companies who return profits to their tax base,wherever that is.
One rule for all,stop tax avoidence and dole scrounging but we all know both will continue to provide a scapegoat when needed!
I,m not bitter just twisted Oops

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cobba
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Ty Gwyn

Joined: 30/10/2009
Location: Lampeter

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Port Talbot & Tata
Posted: 28/09/2010 21:56:25
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They have safety sign`s in Daw Mill in Polish and English

Yes ,Tower were in talks over Margam about 10 yrs back,and more recently,so were Unity,when Gerwyn Williams was the spokesman there,but the rights to mine were awarded to Corus,after meetings and appeals in the High court
IP: 86.148.133.49
Knocker

Joined: 17/06/2008

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Port Talbot & Tata
Posted: 29/09/2010 08:01:18
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I always find it hilarious when people use the argument that foreign labour could be used when suggesting that industrial developments shouldn't go ahead, I've heard it so many times in the last few years with regards to crofty by people opposing the reopening of the mine. So far crofty have over 60 working on site, to the best of my knowledge there is not a single pole, lithuanian or anything else working there (Actually the security guard maybe German), bear in mind in the 70's and 80s there were dutch (But the people who oppose foreign labour don't seem to have a problem with the dutch), Italians and Poles working there - its nothing new!

As industry re-establishes there will be a need to bring in experienced labour from abroad to fill a gap, but eventually (within 5-10 years) the labour will be replaced with local labour. The problem with transient labour from the East if Europe is they do not generally stay for long, while this is great for agricultural non skilled labour, it is a huge problem for skilled and semi skilled industrial work.
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Ty Gwyn

Joined: 30/10/2009
Location: Lampeter

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Port Talbot & Tata
Posted: 29/09/2010 09:05:30
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If Tata`s feasability study proves to be good,which brings me to think ,why all the other feasability studies proved so negative for the area,could have been political.
I don`t see a problem with Local opposition,due to the fact,the 2 drifts will be driven from within the Tata compound as it stands,so coal will be brought out on site,perfect for thier situation.
The area to be mined,is roughly under Margam park,but at a depth,due to seam pitches,the worrying part to me,is that the area is surrounded by old Collieries,that vitually closed because of the historic problems this area holds.
But with the price of coal high,and forcasts to rise in the future,this project looks closer than it has in the past,to become reality.
Regarding training,there is a seminar in the University in Cardiff in October,organised by HMIM and others,to organise a program to overcome this issue,also a talk on the prposed Margam project.
Should be interesting.
IP: 81.157.0.132
derrickman

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Joined: 18/02/2009

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Port Talbot & Tata
Posted: 30/09/2010 13:12:22
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mining is an international business, always has been. A good number of my generation at CSM went to South Africa and a fair few of them are in Australia or Canada these days.

From what I saw at Tabas, Poles are probably the current world leaders in working longwall faces at steep dips and difficult geology.

I would have to be deeply sceptical of Margam, ideas have a useful life and frankly, I would say this one has just been around too long. The main risk I would see, is that it an exercise in 'mining for subsidies' - the modern version of building large, impressive engine houses to impress the Stock Market or as Mark Twain said, 'a western mine is a hole in the ground, owned by a liar'. It would be very much Tata's style.

I'd like to be proven wrong on this but the proof will be in the pudding.

That said, there is a good case for trying to save some of the experience we have, before it's too late. The workforce at Combe Down were indeed a bit long in the tooth in a fair number of cases, and the job would have been impossible to man up in the foreseeable future. Considering some of the politically correctness driven sh1te our taxes are spent on, we could at least make the effort.


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lipsi

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Joined: 20/04/2008
Location: Worcester, England

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Port Talbot & Tata
Posted: 30/09/2010 16:22:12
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Can we please stop knocking those who are unemployed. I've been out of work for 3 weeks in 43 years up to April this year, but now been out of work since. Although nobody says so, they don't want to employ a 60 year old, so not hopeful, but applying for dozens of jobs. Even been working for the church as a volunteer admin manager. I just want to be useful.....
As for Job Seekers allowance, it doesn't even fill the petrol tank. Who the heck would do this from choice.

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Where there's a mine or a hole in the ground. That's where I'm heading for that's where I'm bound So follow me down Cousin Jack (Grateful thanks to Show of Hands)
IP: 86.170.38.144
derrickman

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Joined: 18/02/2009

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Port Talbot & Tata
Posted: 30/09/2010 19:00:47
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that's because you aren't doing it properly. The benefits system in this country is designed to support people with nil assets indefinitely at levels at least equal to anything they could ever expect to earn.

If you have any assets or savings nobody gives a monkeys about you.

There are unemployed, and unemployable, and they aren't the same thing. Quite a few of the Combe Down men had been out of work for some time, years in some cases, and allowing for the inevitable handful of odds and sods you will always get in a sample of around 400 men over the contract period, they were a sound bunch of blokes who did a lot of hard work in pretty poor conditions.

Some of them were a bit unfit, or rusty at first but that soon passed.

I know blokes who only work 90 or 100 days a year, this is nothing unusual in a high-turnover, seasonal occupation like offshore oil, but they don't regard themselves as 'unemployed' when they aren't working, they say they are 'looking around', 'having a break' or 'standing by'. It's the main reason day-rates are relatively high, you have to provide an incentive for men with specialised skills to accept relatively low employment rates and still come when they are wanted.

but, I have seen people who are genuinely unemployable; people with no useful skills at all, down to the level of being unable to turn up in the morning reliably, or actually do any work once there. There is a significant population in this country who are simply incapable of work, it having been bred out of them.

's true about age discrimination, too. I have completely abandoned the effort to make a living in the UK, at 56 years old. I am systematically ignored in this country, but Dutch, Italian or French companies like experience and steady nerves. Arab countries regard age as an asset. The recent Russian site I was on, I was the baby of the team with the oldest being 67 years of age.


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