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Mine Exploration Forum

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Author ANHMS / BCA Insurance Renewal
SimonRL

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Joined: 27/11/2005
Location: North Wales

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ANHMS / BCA Insurance Renewal
Posted: 08/05/2008 13:28:41
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We are pleased to announce the AditNow Mining History Society (ANMHS). This is an extension of the web site for those members who would like a cost effective route to BCA insurance through an association of like minded mine explorers and historians.

Membership of the ANHMS will enable mine explorers to gain access to locations for which BCA insurance is mandatory, for example the Milwr Tunnel system and Parys Mountain, but without the need to become a member of that club or pay on the day.

Please note that the AditNow Mining History Society is not intended to compete with the many established and excellent mine history/exploration clubs and societies around the country. If you are looking for a local club with the benefits of a more traditional structure (such as club facilities, club kit, regular meetings) then an established club may be more suitable.

However for those site members without a local club or who would prefer a web based group with the broad geographic spread of membership that comes with that we hope it will appeal.

We intend to produce a newsletter, in web PDF format, twice a year. Please see Vanoord for this Smile

Finally of course I must add that nothing changes on the web site. No features will be 'society only'. The web site continues exactly as is, free for all to join and contribute to. The Society is an entirely optional add-on for those site members who wish to join and benefit from BCA insurance.

More information here [web link].

Signup is online only, membership runs annually 1st January to 31st December with a decreasing scale of costs for members joining part way through the year. The correct amount will be charged automatically.

Thanks,
simonrl


--

No sir, this here will do just fine
IP: 83.148.135.213 Edited: 07/01/2009 18:36:31 by SimonRL
royfellows

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Joined: 13/06/2007
Location: Great Wyrley near Walsall

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NEWS: AditNow Mining History Society
Posted: 08/05/2008 13:34:28
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Any chance of a class of membership for those who already have BCRA insurance and simply want to 'fly the flag' and get the newsletter?
Or does this automatically apply to anyone who is a member of the site?

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'There's a lot of activity for a disused mine!' - Bond in 'A view to a kill'
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Vanoord

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Joined: 28/11/2005
Location: North Wales

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NEWS: AditNow Mining History Society
Posted: 08/05/2008 13:47:54
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royfellows wrote:

Any chance of a class of membership for those who already have BCRA insurance and simply want to 'fly the flag' and get the newsletter?
Or does this automatically apply to anyone who is a member of the site?


The newsletter will be made available to those who wish to see it but have not joined the ANHMS.

I will be asking for contributions and reports for inclusion in the newsletter at some point in the next few weeks - and updates on your work "down south" would be much appreciated! Flowers

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Filling space until a new signature comes along...
IP: 81.148.139.224 Edited: 08/05/2008 13:48:45 by Vanoord
Moorebooks

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Joined: 28/11/2007
Location: Newport, Shropshire

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NEWS: AditNow Mining History Society
Posted: 08/05/2008 13:51:28
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Simon,

It is a very good idea - although you are slightly incorrect in suggesting that Caving only clubs carry the BCA insurance. In general it is mining societies that have the majority interest in having this due to negotiated access arrangements. Most mining societies carry the insurance with exceptions of Sub Brit, NMRS and PDHMS although the latter have an insurance alternative for Club acitivities.

Mike
IP: 92.42.56.244 Edited: 08/05/2008 13:52:14 by Moorebooks
SimonRL

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NEWS: AditNow Mining History Society
Posted: 08/05/2008 13:55:22
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Thanks Mike. I've corrected that wording now.

Roy, thanks for the sentiment in your post. However due to lack of club hut, lack of club kit etc., I really do feel that a non-mine-exploring category wouldn't really offer people anything and I don't want to be taking money off people if they're not getting anything in return.

I do stress this is not intended to compete with the established mine history and exploration clubs around the country, to that end even the page about the ANMHS has a list of alternate clubs (still being compiled). Because for a lot of people a traditional club may be a better option.

Hopefully though it will appeal to a wide enough group of people to be viable.

--

No sir, this here will do just fine
IP: 83.148.135.213 Edited: 08/05/2008 14:00:52 by SimonRL
Moorebooks

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NEWS: AditNow Mining History Society
Posted: 08/05/2008 14:02:43
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On reflection I have a little concern that this could be seen as discouraging membership of existing societies - if anything I rather hoped that Adit now would support these. Without members and their vital contributions a lot of good works will cease.

Although I would hope that members are not just in it for the insurance

Mike
IP: 92.42.56.244 Edited: 08/05/2008 14:03:11 by Moorebooks
SimonRL

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NEWS: AditNow Mining History Society
Posted: 08/05/2008 14:08:56
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No, we'll do everything we can for the established clubs. Although it would be somewhat conceited for the site to presume that it is needed by those clubs.

To that end any club that wants member only forums can have them free of charge, similarly any club that wants to use the Mining News page to get their news across is more than welcome to. The 'society' page will list as many alternate traditional clubs as I can get links for and similarly these can go on the main links page as well.

The idea of an association was something that was suggested to me, it's been a while in the planning and other features like the international section and major surface features did take precedence as I think the ANHMS will appeal only to a small number of people. But it is not designed to be in competition with other clubs, nor will it ever be.

--

No sir, this here will do just fine
IP: 83.148.135.213
Moorebooks

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NEWS: AditNow Mining History Society
Posted: 08/05/2008 14:15:53
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With a couple of exceptions most Mining Societies are open to membership but a lot have an aging membership. Although most are a bit like Roy and will never stop.

It is difficult to recruit and even more difficult to get new members to engage in activites. Anything this website can do to promote clubs I feel woul be great albeit the NAMHO website www.NAMHO.org.uk acts as a the main signpost towards member organisations

Mike
IP: 92.42.56.244
SimonRL

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NEWS: AditNow Mining History Society
Posted: 08/05/2008 14:15:58
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Of course it also allows us to offer trips (organised through the controlling club) to places that require insurance to people who may not already be a member of a traditional club; Parys, Milwr, Great Orme, Snailbeach etc. It's entirely possible after such a trip these people may go on to join a club or society in their area and get involved in these activities.

Hopefully it'll all work out to the benefit of all involved.

But I'm trying to be transparent with it and saying that if you want to join a traditional club or society with the benefits therein then here are a list of alternatives.


--

No sir, this here will do just fine
IP: 83.148.135.213
jagman

Joined: 11/03/2007

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NEWS: AditNow Mining History Society
Posted: 08/05/2008 15:26:21
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Moorebooks wrote:

On reflection I have a little concern that this could be seen as discouraging membership of existing societies - if anything I rather hoped that Adit now would support these. Without members and their vital contributions a lot of good works will cease.

Although I would hope that members are not just in it for the insurance

Mike


Is it not simply offering an alternative for all those who do not what want to be part of a club or society?
I know several people who have joined clubs etc for the sake of insurance. This scheme removes that necessity whch can only be a good thing.
Personally I'm not in favour of insurance anyway and certainly not in favour of making it a condition of access, but I guess thats an argument not for this thread.
IP: 90.206.232.146
Moorebooks

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NEWS: AditNow Mining History Society
Posted: 08/05/2008 15:38:05
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Without many of the Clubs there would be no access or preservation all the work that has been done at Snailbeach and Tankerville would not have happened with out the influence of the SCMC.

We also have a number of access agreements in place for instance Snailbeach the County Council insist on visitors having 3 party insurance. We could only gain access to Clive Copper with insurance the Estate who own the mine have a submersable pump in the main shaft and I guess that is fair enough.

We have agreements with the Forestry Commission and another estate for access into several mines again the insurance provided gives them comfort. With landowners liabilities who can blame them.

Mike
IP: 92.42.56.244
Vanoord

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NEWS: AditNow Mining History Society
Posted: 08/05/2008 17:15:41
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I think the important point to stress is that this is not an attempt to compete with any existing societies, rather it is a step to enable AditNow forum users to join in with trips to places which require insurance.

For example, several of the AN forum users going to Snailbeach on Sunday will be covered under the ANHMS insurance. Without this, the trip would be a lot more difficult to arrange and co-ordinate. The great benefit that the Society will bring is that it will greatly aid AditNow's ability to organise trips to places that require insurance - for example Milwr, Parys, Snailbeach etc..

Primarily, AN will easily be able to provide the insurance numbers for members attending without any of the hassle of chasing attendees up and/or running the risk of people being found not to have insurance at the last moment (yes this has happened, albeit not with AN!). Whilst this certainly does not exclude those who already have insurance elsewhere, it should open up trips to more people by making it easier for them to gain the requisite insurance.

It was also felt that AN could have encountered problems with arranging trips to some sites simply because it wasn't a society or club. Again, the aim is to enable more trips to be organised and for more people to participate.

Thus, this move should hopefully enable people who have not
participated in trips to do so. And indeed, as Simonrl notes, there are links to other clubs and societies on the sign-up page, so AditNow will continue to promote the work of others.

I'd also add that AditNow has been actively involved in a number of preservation/restoration activities, in particular at Cwmorthin. Hopefully these sorts of activities will continue well into the future and the ANMHM will make a useful contribution in its own right.

--

Filling space until a new signature comes along...
IP: 81.148.139.224 Edited: 08/05/2008 17:16:02 by Vanoord
AR

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Joined: 07/11/2007
Location: Knot far from Knotlow in the middle of the Peak District

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NEWS: AditNow Mining History Society
Posted: 08/05/2008 21:37:36
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I don't see any clash or contradiction between my PDMHS membership and joining ANMHS - I've been contemplating whether to join a local caving club to get my BCA card, but this provides a quick and easy route for me. Indeed, I'd hope that anyone joining ANHMS would also join their local society if they hadn't already done so.

Being part of a society may make it easier to negotiate a trip into Ecton, which I've been making a few enquiries about - I'll make a few more and see if I can maybe get some provisional dates. The main sticking point as I understand it is that the Ecton Hill Trust won't let you in without one of their approved leaders - insurance insn't needed, but you do have to sign a disclaimer before going in.

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Follow the horses, Johnny my laddie, Follow the horses canny lad-oh
IP: 79.71.147.22
toadstone

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Joined: 10/09/2007
Location: Father's Dwelling, Big Low

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NEWS: AditNow Mining History Society
Posted: 09/05/2008 07:35:17
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I think its a brilliant idea. As for affecting the other societies and clubs, if anything it will probably promote/support them. Like AR I am a member of the PDMHS. This has an active "preservation" group and members are able to join organised groups to visit mines, both being promoted through their web site. By me joining AditNow Society it just opens the doors wider for me to see other mines outside my local area with two very important criteria. Namely, I'm insured and I'm part of an accountable society.

If I were to join it would not impact on my already limited commitment to PDMHS if anything it may increase my involvement overall.

For those who would prefer not to or do not have the time to devote to a conventional society it is most definitely an official way to explore and get underground.

I do however need to raise, with reference to the constitution, a couple of questions. They are directed at the Membership section in particular the first two paragraphs. It is probably an interpretation thing more than anything.

The first paragraph covers the applicant, demonstrate commitment etc. Then the second seems to slam the door in the face of anyone who may want to join and who may not necessarily want to go underground to demonstrate their commitment. Mines consist of above ground working just as important. The insurance element must surely cover the environs of the mine too, in which case anyone demonstrating their commitment this way must also need to join. Surely Full Membership is sufficient???

Rightly or wrongly when I first read the constitution it was the only thing that seemed to contradict the aims of the society. I hope you don't think I'm being pedantic. Or have I misunderstood?

Peter.

IP: 86.155.73.125
Vanoord

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NEWS: AditNow Mining History Society
Posted: 09/05/2008 10:19:20
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toadstone wrote:

I do however need to raise, with reference to the constitution, a couple of questions. They are directed at the Membership section in particular the first two paragraphs. It is probably an interpretation thing more than anything.

The first paragraph covers the applicant, demonstrate commitment etc. Then the second seems to slam the door in the face of anyone who may want to join and who may not necessarily want to go underground to demonstrate their commitment. Mines consist of above ground working just as important. The insurance element must surely cover the environs of the mine too, in which case anyone demonstrating their commitment this way must also need to join. Surely Full Membership is sufficient???


I'm not sure there is a contradiction Smile

The insurance is the standard type offered by the BCA - this covers 3rd party liability, but not for personal injury etc. The need to have insurance is generally insisted upon by the landowner for underground sites, hence the one category of membership - think of it as full membership rather than specifically underground membership!

Given that the ANMHS is a very new entity, I suspect that some aspects will change over the first couple of years and if there is a confirmed desire for an additional type of membership, then this can be considered.

--

Filling space until a new signature comes along...
IP: 81.148.139.224 Edited: 09/05/2008 10:20:05 by Vanoord
Moorebooks

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NEWS: AditNow Mining History Society
Posted: 09/05/2008 14:18:24
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he insurance is also set for surface only members - hence why the BCA have set two levels of payment - the membership categories should also reflect this

Mike
IP: 92.42.56.244
SimonRL

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NEWS: AditNow Mining History Society
Posted: 09/05/2008 14:25:25
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Do people want the surface insurance only offering?

Is it getting closer to interfering with 'proper' clubs which isn't our intention?

--

No sir, this here will do just fine
IP: 83.148.135.213
jagman

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NEWS: AditNow Mining History Society
Posted: 09/05/2008 15:20:27
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simonrl wrote:

Do people want the surface insurance only offering?

Is it getting closer to interfering with 'proper' clubs which isn't our intention?


I can't see the need myself.
As you say it starts to transgress into the territory of established clubs/societies. Unless this is the desire then there isn't really much point in going the whole hog
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toadstone

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NEWS: AditNow Mining History Society
Posted: 09/05/2008 17:25:41
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Fair enough, I just wanted to clarify the position. I understand now where you are coming from. As I've said I think its a brilliant idea.

Peter.
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Jomi

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NEWS: AditNow Mining History Society
Posted: 10/05/2008 17:39:50
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Can you be a bit clearer about what you mean by 'Full underground member'? Does my one trip underground count?


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