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Mine Exploration Forum

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Author another mine lost
The Fresh Prince of Portreath

Joined: 05/08/2015

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another mine lost
Posted: 04/09/2017 23:17:34
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Get the bat nutters out and go to town on them.

This is about silly little nit pickers waving the big control hammer over naughty mineral collectors.

It's like punching a ginger kid in the playground.

However, I rejoice in the fact that this daft religion nonsense is dying out, even if it's being replaced by snackbars. They won't make a fuss about mineral collecting infidels, because there are more important jihads to deal with.
IP: 196.52.10.10 Edited: 04/09/2017 23:19:00 by The Fresh Prince of Portreath
risy76115

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Joined: 30/10/2011
Location: consett co durham

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another mine lost
Posted: 04/09/2017 23:33:21
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Think that the only reason WP is welded shut as there is holes in the door for the bats . stanhopeburn adits you could only get a few yards in , red vein adits the one on the left was run in about 6 ft or so in, and the one straightforward was a good few yards in before it was run in but these have had soil/rubble tipped in and over the adits now .

--

Rise from the ashes
IP: 92.14.176.184
The Fresh Prince of Portreath

Joined: 05/08/2015

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another mine lost
Posted: 04/09/2017 23:54:03
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Oh well, better accept that's how it is and never speak of the entrance again. IP: 196.52.10.10
Chalcocite

Joined: 02/07/2017

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another mine lost
Posted: 05/09/2017 00:48:45
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So no more crate loads of yellow sparklies going stateside then! Well at least the little furry critters will be left undisturbed. Smile IP: 213.205.198.35
The Fresh Prince of Portreath

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another mine lost
Posted: 05/09/2017 00:57:21
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Mineral collecting is as old as mining. I imagine so is being a chump about mineral collectors.

Mineral specimens are a by product of holes and hats off to the people pushing these places and furthering the subjects, rather than attempting to stop time with their controlling nannying nonsense.
IP: 196.52.10.10
droid

Joined: 31/10/2010
Location: Tamworth

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another mine lost
Posted: 05/09/2017 04:31:22
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I suppose the concept of leaving minerals in situ for others to see and enjoy is similarly chumpish...

Mind, I can't see that happening.
IP: 31.185.37.208 Edited: 05/09/2017 04:35:11 by droid
royfellows

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Joined: 13/06/2007
Location: Great Wyrley near Walsall

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another mine lost
Posted: 05/09/2017 09:49:46
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Attempting a balanced viewpoint.......

Minerals are the reason the mine is there in the first place. But nowadays its, "Those are my sweats"

and just to complicate things a bit further somewhere in the background is someone who actually legally owns them.

The blocked off Red Vein suggests either H and S or a preemptive strike against a possible digging project.

--

I wonder about the abandoned flip flops, but how does baling twine get into MY mine?
IP: 88.108.11.91
John Mason

Joined: 22/09/2008

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another mine lost
Posted: 05/09/2017 10:12:23
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H&S - and fears about liability - are the likely reasons, I'd guess. Same with Crown mines and the gianormous fencing stockades around them all. The M&Q rules - "an adequate barrier" - do not help because "adequate" is such an open-ended term. IP: 86.170.19.165
ColinA

Joined: 14/04/2008
Location: Cumbria

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another mine lost
Posted: 05/09/2017 10:13:17
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Does dumping rubble and soil constitute fly tipping?, Did they check no one was inside at the time of welding ? Lots of questions bet we get no answers?

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ColinA
IP: 31.53.168.226
John Mason

Joined: 22/09/2008

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another mine lost
Posted: 05/09/2017 10:15:08
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Highly valid questions there! IP: 86.170.19.165
Chalcocite

Joined: 02/07/2017

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another mine lost
Posted: 05/09/2017 14:14:28
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I'm sure the intrepid mine explorer is not going to trawl through the archives to find out who owns the ground on which this or that ancient mine is located Roy. Or even the Mineral Lord who may be someone completely different. They are probably in some church yard now pushing up daisies in any case. Better for them to be preserved by an ardent collector than Gunssmashed to bits by some k*******d or degraded by weathering conditions. Guns IP: 213.205.198.93
royfellows

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Joined: 13/06/2007
Location: Great Wyrley near Walsall

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another mine lost
Posted: 05/09/2017 16:08:41
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Chalcocite wrote:

I'm sure the intrepid mine explorer is not going to trawl through the archives to find out who owns the ground on which this or that ancient mine is located Roy.


try bashing away in some mines and they soon find out

--

I wonder about the abandoned flip flops, but how does baling twine get into MY mine?
IP: 88.108.11.91
PeteJ

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Joined: 12/05/2008
Location: Frosterley, Durham

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another mine lost
Posted: 05/09/2017 17:30:24
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Time we had a touch of reality in this discussion. Mines have owners who have legal responsibilities. If those owners decide to fulfil those responsibilities, we have no comeback.

As has been said before in this forum - no publicity is the best approach, and don't be seen wearing a lamp and helmet.

IP: 147.147.202.122 Edited: 05/09/2017 17:31:36 by PeteJ
moorlandmineral

Joined: 08/12/2007

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another mine lost
Posted: 05/09/2017 19:17:19
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Having peered in those now landscaped levels you really have to ask yourself what hazards they posed??? There is a balance to be struck here... simply attempting to obliterate a mine entrance does not necessarily obviate the danger, it's still there underneath the rubble, but any potential future issue by its presence there suddenly is masked by this cosmetic attempt at painting over the landscape..
I don't believe this is the way to go and to me it doesn't stand rational scrutiny
IP: 5.67.24.78
royfellows

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another mine lost
Posted: 05/09/2017 20:00:26
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moorlandmineral wrote:

Having peered in those now landscaped levels you really have to ask yourself what hazards they posed??? There is a balance to be struck here... simply attempting to obliterate a mine entrance does not necessarily obviate the danger, it's still there underneath the rubble, but any potential future issue by its presence there suddenly is masked by this cosmetic attempt at painting over the landscape..
I don't believe this is the way to go and to me it doesn't stand rational scrutiny


Spot on!

A bit like 'filling' shafts in by people who don't really understand mines.

So how about filling a shaft in and then building a house over it. I am not saying anymore on this. Rather adds a whole new meaning to the expression "digging a hole for oneself"
Laugh

--

I wonder about the abandoned flip flops, but how does baling twine get into MY mine?
IP: 88.108.11.91
sparty_lea

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Joined: 26/04/2007
Location: Weardale

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another mine lost
Posted: 05/09/2017 20:05:34
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I think the high profile some places have on facebook and even on here is to blame.

The internet has been fantastic in some ways, enabling like minded people to share information and providing a resource of information about places that is hard to equal any other way.

Aditnow has become the go-to place for info about mines but this comes with a downside when the info spreads beyond it's intended audience. This is especially the problem with facebook, once anything is posted there its a free for all, information and misinformation mingle and circulate far and wide.

I used to post alot of pictures, I stopped doing that some time ago and I notice quite a few others seem to have dried up too. It's honestly not worth the hassle it causes IMO.
IP: 109.155.163.130
robnorthwales

Joined: 21/05/2008
Location: Denbighshire, North wales

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another mine lost
Posted: 05/09/2017 20:19:07
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It's quite simple really - if kids (or anyone else) can get into it, then the landowner can be held liable if something happens to them.
Technically, the landowner can fence it off and put up warning signs, and then if kids get through and die the landowner (probably) isn't liable, or is less liable.
But fences require maintenance, undergrowth cutting back regularly, and are an ongoing cost.
Bulldozing an adit, on the other hand, is pretty final.
IP: 84.92.184.61
The Fresh Prince of Portreath

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another mine lost
Posted: 06/09/2017 01:08:51
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I'd rather end up in court over kids cutting bars and coming unstuck than getting utterly scuttled by the EA for blocking up a bat roost.

The holiest of holy very common bats. You would think there were only 8 of them left.

The whole "filling shafts" is a proper engineered thing. The NCB book (on here) has a whole section on it (and why it fails)
IP: 196.52.10.29 Edited: 06/09/2017 01:12:15 by The Fresh Prince of Portreath
robnorthwales

Joined: 21/05/2008
Location: Denbighshire, North wales

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another mine lost
Posted: 06/09/2017 09:15:28
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The Fresh Prince of Portreath wrote:

I'd rather end up in court over kids cutting bars and coming unstuck than getting utterly scuttled by the EA for blocking up a bat roost.



Kid gets into your abandoned mine, injured or dead, you're sued to hell, potentially bankrupt.

Max penalty for destroying a bat roost, £5k fine, potentially 6 months inside. Which means out in 3 months, IF the courts decided to go that far - which is highly unlikely, so a fine of £5k max.

If that's 'utterly scuttled' by the EA then they don't do much scuttling !

If you want to set up a company to limit out liability (a la Roy) then that company still has to do various things to maintain itself, and ensure that it has procedures in place to monitor the safety of non-properly-equipped people or the general (surface wandering) public. All of which costs money and time on an ongoing basis. You have to keep records to show those inspections have been made, you have to pay Companies House to maintain the register.

As opposed to bulldozing or backfilling an adit, which costs a few hundred quid, once. With the possible, maybe, just-might-happed, of the EA coming along and having a hissy fit.

I'll put it this way. If you weren't a mine explorer, and had minimal interest in the hole on your ground, what you you realistically do ?
1. Potentially risk everything in a lawsuit
2. Do a load of paperwork and get it all registered with Companies House (and then have regular paperwork and monitoring/maintenance forever).
3. Fire up the JCB
IP: 84.13.6.252
The Fresh Prince of Portreath

Joined: 05/08/2015

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another mine lost
Posted: 06/09/2017 09:28:39
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This is the excuse spouted by the local caving group over a very big and impressive copper mine in a woods. Forget the arsenic everywhere, or the dangerous drops, etc. If the children go climbing around, miles into the woods and over a hill, behind a tree stump, it's possible they could enter a smelly dark tunnel that leads to a drop.

We have to think of these children. We must lock the place. I'm sure if the bars got cut enough, they'd fill it, like Olwyn Goch, because it's not about safety, or the children, it's about one group of people presiding over another.

IME, it's not landowners who are unduly worried, even the big ones. You've only got to go to the nearest mine site to see inadequately fenced shafts (someone think of the animals?) it's the local tw@s who need to play a game and compete.

This is why I go around in camo gear, if required, make my own access arrangements and keep things low key. People stepping outside of this protocol will inevitably end up playing the access game with the landowners driven by people concerned about "the children".
IP: 81.140.40.222
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