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Author More Browns Folly mayhem
MonkeyCaver

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Posted: 17/11/2016 17:28:47
NouveauRiche wrote:

However, I must also add, that the tone, language and outright name calling and character assassination on that UK caving thread and many others I have read is astoundingly horrifying.... and that's when I reply to what was written above... if you cannot say it nicely and respectfully, do not say it at all. Playground bickering and childish bullying and attacks do not achieve anything.

I quite agree and admitted my guilt and openly apologised...
MonkeyCaver wrote:

You are right that was my opinion and I guess I shouted out my minds thoughts, sorry.
I never said in the area. I said 'we have lost access to too many places as it is'. I didnt say they were in the area. It wasnt me or anyone that got them lost but they are being sealed or reworked or various other reasons. We do not need to close more up voluntarily.

We do not need to keep dragging it up, but thank you for pointing it out again. More people will see that it isnt hard to get along with a little effort. But we all need to put the positive effort in.
IP: 82.45.9.4 Edited: 17/11/2016 17:30:22 by MonkeyCaver
droid

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Posted: 17/11/2016 17:30:22
'Outstandingly horrifying'?

Outstandingly understandable I'd say. In some other situations this level of vandalism would result in re-education of a very direct nature.

Character assassination of the perpetrators? They do that to themselves by their actions.
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NewStuff

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Posted: 17/11/2016 17:43:59
I'm very much "open access for all", and I'm not known for shutting up and playing nice when people wish to stop or restrict access.

While I do think that the "caretaker" has caused some issues himself, there is no need for the total targeted, hyper-aggressive, vindictive attacks. The time and opportunity for mediation is long past, on both sides.

I appreciate he means well, but I suspect a lot of the original resentment towards him was of his own doing. and escalated from there. I imagine he's standing up to the bullies in his own mind. I would personally suggest a bloody good kicking is in order, these lot are essentially bullying an old man, and no matter what he's done, there are plenty of other ways to deal with it. If this doesn't get solved, I suspect that access for anyone will be significantly more difficult in the future.

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MonkeyCaver

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Posted: 17/11/2016 17:50:57
Peter Burgess wrote:

I should add the important thing is not to publicise the damage so it gets no oxygen. Just keep on making good. The more that do it, the stronger the "quiet army". It might not keep the site safe, but it would encourage Brian and help him realise people care.

Well it is funny you should mention that. You see, that is exactly what has been happening for years. Brian doesnt make a big drama all over the interweb. Concerned cavers do it. Brian doesnt attract attention, he doesnt need to, everyone just picks on Brian because he is an easy target. Its pathetic and a very low thing to keep doing like this.

The people doing this, and they know who they are, are just picking on one aged guy because he is basically unable to fight back. Not that I believe he would even if he could. His morals are high, yet the perpetrators have no morals, no honour and no respect for anything.

Publicising this highlights not only the damage to the quarry but also the assault on the quarry and Brian personally. Keep spreading the knowledge. People can act on knowledge but they cant if they do not know!
IP: 82.45.9.4 Edited: 17/11/2016 17:56:21 by MonkeyCaver
droid

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Posted: 17/11/2016 17:58:50
NewStuff: Spot on. IP: 51.6.41.230
JohnnearCfon

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Posted: 17/11/2016 18:09:45
droid wrote:

'Outstandingly horrifying'?

Outstandingly understandable I'd say. In some other situations this level of vandalism would result in re-education of a very direct nature.

Character assassination of the perpetrators? They do that to themselves by their actions.


Droid, I think you might have misunderstood the point NouveauRiche was making, his comment was referring to the vandalism done by the "c****s" (their own word) and the character assassinations of Brian.
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droid

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Posted: 17/11/2016 18:18:54
I was taking NR's comments in the context of the UKC thread. IP: 51.6.41.230
MonkeyCaver

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Posted: 17/11/2016 18:23:59
The thing here is, if Brian were to stop his conservation a couple things would likely happen as time has proved.

Firstly the likes of Clapham being trashed like it has been is really bad, we all agree on that. Now if it is not cleaned when the perps return expecting a clean canvas to paint, suddenly find they have not got one. This tends to enrage them to a degree so what happens? They move on to the next area to foul and destroy that. This will continue throughout the whole quarry in the end as the paint they bring will 'have to be used somewhere'. You would not expect them to take it back now would you?

The other thing that would happen should Brian cease his activities would be that these people would then focus their attention on breaking into the restore storage facility. With no one to keep an eye on it and strengthen defences the place would soon be swarming with police and all sorts as has been done in the past.

IP: 82.45.9.4 Edited: 17/11/2016 18:49:24 by MonkeyCaver
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Posted: 17/11/2016 18:30:06
droid wrote:

I was taking NR's comments in the context of the UKC thread.


I think you had your wires crossed. I know what Rich meant.

--

Ah, well, now, you see.... IP: 86.128.27.151
droid

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Posted: 17/11/2016 18:49:45
sinker wrote:

droid wrote:

I was taking NR's comments in the context of the UKC thread.


I think you had your wires crossed. I know what Rich meant.


Fair play.
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ttxela

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Posted: 17/11/2016 19:48:18
MonkeyCaver wrote:



The people doing this, and they know who they are, are just picking on one aged guy because he is basically unable to fight back. Not that I believe he would even if he could. His morals are high, yet the perpetrators have no morals, no honour and no respect for anything.


Well said once again, having corresponded with him for a number of years now I am increasingly impressed by his fortitude and general good character.
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MonkeyCaver

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Posted: 20/11/2016 01:38:12
ttxela wrote:

Well said once again, having corresponded with him for a number of years now I am increasingly impressed by his fortitude and general good character.

Thank you ttxela. It is a pleasure to know him for sure.

Now is it just me? Or did anyone else notice? I think someone at least, or maybe some bodies are perhaps getting a little concerned maybe??? The Face book group Brian's Folly seems to of miraculously disappeared!! I wonder if it is because everyone is unhappy and talking of sorting the issue out? Time will tell I am sure.
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MonkeyCaver

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Posted: 20/11/2016 12:42:07
OK Please feel free to make sense of this.

This photo was posted in Darkplaces Facebook page Saturday evening, showing and referring to the heavily damaged area known as Clapham Junction.

What's wrong with this one might ask?

How about the fact that when this damage was done, Brian was on the scene so soon after this happened that there was still fumes of many kinds very prevalent in the whole area. It was like a fog is how he describes it. This photo seems to indicate being possibly similar?

How about the fact that the rubbish in the photo was cleared within minutes of being found?

How about the fact that there is still unpainted areas, the rails for instance in this photo? The damage is not complete when compared to other photos of how it was finally left.

Coincidently also, when this photo was questioned in the group, around the same time all the content of a certain individual disappeared from the group Brian's Folly. Very soon after that the whole group disappeared also.

Now I am not Sherlock Holmes but there is a lot of things going on here. Maybe someone can make sense of it?

IP: 82.45.9.4 Edited: 20/11/2016 13:00:15 by MonkeyCaver
royfellows

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Posted: 20/11/2016 20:57:29
What happens when sheep wonder in



(click image to open full size image in new window)

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"How people get on with these things as a mobile device I cannot begin to imagine, but it certainly explains a lot about peoples behaviour."
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MonkeyCaver

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Posted: 21/11/2016 05:21:59
Post from UKC regarding the photo....
MonkeyCaver
Brains
The list in black on the wall reads differently as well to how it appears in the other photos - one name has been changed for another?

Well spotted. It is known when this happened! Does it mean two groups? The main damage perhaps done by distant organised groups, then adjusted, added to or otherwise altered, by a more local group maybe? Evidence would appear to indicate this. maybe there are two groups and they work together? Maybe that is what Brian's Folly was about?
IP: 82.45.9.4 Edited: 21/11/2016 05:24:35 by MonkeyCaver
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Posted: 21/11/2016 10:23:18
MonkeyCaver wrote:

Evidence would appear to indicate this. maybe there are two groups and they work together? Maybe that is what Brian's Folly was about?


You need to go back at least 8 years to understand the 'forces' involved.
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MonkeyCaver

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Posted: 21/11/2016 13:10:20
Morlock wrote:

MonkeyCaver wrote:

Evidence would appear to indicate this. maybe there are two groups and they work together? Maybe that is what Brian's Folly was about?


You need to go back at least 8 years to understand the 'forces' involved.

Why is that then?
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Posted: 21/11/2016 13:14:02
Do some research.Wink IP: 86.186.138.34
Wormster

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Posted: 21/11/2016 17:57:54
RIGHTO I'm posting this on here because I feel that this is the "Fairest" of the many forums I do post on!

I've sat on the sidelines and held my tongue for this long enough -

It wasn't that long ago that WE (as a collective) were introduced to Brian and his efforts at BF - WE all thought it was a good thing to do, BUT, then obsessive postings on another forum led to him being banned, with no voice to speak out, then OTHERS (outside of the collective) decided to prey on this unfortunate being, this has escalated to the point that we are confronted with now.

Until Brian decides to take ANY legal action against the "vandals" for ANY of the things that have happened to him: ie damaged cars, burnt wheelbarrows, personal insults, etc.

There is NOTHING that ANYBODY else can do.

WE (as a collective group), can, sit behind our keyboards pontificating on how terrible it all is (and it is!)) and, how something *should* be done, but the collective in this instance is in the hands of but one man, who takes it from all sides and probably has no idea of the upset around him.

I suggest that we all tread very carefully, as, I suspect this will not end well - be careful what you wish for!!

sits back and awaits the inevitable flames

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Better to regret something you have done - than to regret something you have not done.
IP: 86.184.162.154 Edited: 21/11/2016 18:00:47 by Wormster
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Posted: 21/11/2016 18:20:54
Wormster wrote:

RIGHTO I'm posting this on here because I feel that this is the "Fairest" of the many forums I do post on!

I've sat on the sidelines and held my tongue for this long enough -

It wasn't that long ago that WE (as a collective) were introduced to Brian and his efforts at BF - WE all thought it was a good thing to do, BUT, then obsessive postings on another forum led to him being banned, with no voice to speak out, then OTHERS (outside of the collective) decided to prey on this unfortunate being, this has escalated to the point that we are confronted with now.

Until Brian decides to take ANY legal action against the "vandals" for ANY of the things that have happened to him: ie damaged cars, burnt wheelbarrows, personal insults, etc.

There is NOTHING that ANYBODY else can do.

WE (as a collective group), can, sit behind our keyboards pontificating on how terrible it all is (and it is!)) and, how something *should* be done, but the collective in this instance is in the hands of but one man, who takes it from all sides and probably has no idea of the upset around him.

I suggest that we all tread very carefully, as, I suspect this will not end well - be careful what you wish for!!

sits back and awaits the inevitable flames


Not from here, I would say a reasonable assessment and a logical conclusion.
Only thing I would add, if you don't mind, is that Brian has upset people who are reasonable mine explorers and historians because they consider his methodology over the top in altering the fabric of the mine.

Your last paragraph appears to my perception to echo what I have been advising, just stay away.

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