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Mine Exploration Forum

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Author BCA insurance ....
mistericeman

Joined: 04/10/2009
Location: Ashton-under-Lyne (Manchester)

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BCA insurance ....
Posted: 28/03/2016 12:50:29
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Just a though ...

I run a classic landrover forum/club with a small number of members (between 10/20) who have a great interest in exploring old mines and industrial archeology as a whole .
I'm aware that BCA insurance is a requirement for some sites and am just wondering about the best way of covering a small group of explorers OR is it only possible on a individual basis ???

any help would be very much appreciated folks cheers
IP: 82.31.98.113
sir francis lilo

Joined: 09/06/2011
Location: leyburn,wensleydale

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Posted: 28/03/2016 12:58:12
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hi,im a member of yoredale mine and cave group and we pay around £17-£20 each a year,if there is more than 20 in your group i seem to think our secretery said it costs more,we always contact the land owner or game keepers for permission,which we usually get,if we cant get hold we go elsewhere.the most important part is to get permission and abide by the country code no matter what,leave things how they were,dont disturb the livestock and shut gatesWink

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sirfrancislilo its to wet to work lets go digging IP: 78.147.205.215
mistericeman

Joined: 04/10/2009
Location: Ashton-under-Lyne (Manchester)

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BCA insurance ....
Posted: 28/03/2016 13:18:31
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Indeed ...we are used to abiding by access rules/requirements etc ...
though most of the places we have visited so far have no statuary requirement for insurance (As generally advisable as it may be) though some we are interested in visiting do have a requirement so looking to comply with that in the most effective way possible if that makes sense ???
IP: 82.31.98.113
ChrisJC

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Joined: 13/10/2007
Location: Northants

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BCA insurance ....
Posted: 28/03/2016 13:36:39
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I would think your best bet is to get in touch with the BCA and get it from the horses mouth.

Chris.
IP: 178.111.218.76
exspelio

Joined: 02/05/2012
Location: peak district

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BCA insurance ....
Posted: 28/03/2016 13:43:45
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If you 'officialise' the underground exploring side of your activities, you could join BCA as a group and get cover that way, check out their web site to study the various membership options;

http://british-caving.org.uk/wiki3/doku.php?id=membership:start

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Always remember, nature is in charge, get it wrong and it is you who suffers!.
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simonrail

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Joined: 23/07/2008
Location: Cleveland

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BCA insurance ....
Posted: 28/03/2016 14:53:26
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I am secretary of Cleveland Mining Heritage Society and we pay for BCA insurance at about £20 per person per year which covers individuals and also the club itself. We have the insurance primarily to cover ourselves in case some lesser mortal wants to sue us for injury or damages caused allegedly through our activities. Having such cover has certainly helped us to get access to several sites, and we also agree not to sue the landowner in case of an incident.

But I like to remind members that this is no excuse for having an accident.

The only downside, possibly because we are all Yorkshire based, is attempting to prise money out of members' pockets.


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IP: 82.11.31.23
mistericeman

Joined: 04/10/2009
Location: Ashton-under-Lyne (Manchester)

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BCA insurance ....
Posted: 28/03/2016 15:20:12
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simonrail wrote:

I am secretary of Cleveland Mining Heritage Society and we pay for BCA insurance at about £20 per person per year which covers individuals and also the club itself. We have the insurance primarily to cover ourselves in case some lesser mortal wants to sue us for injury or damages caused allegedly through our activities. Having such cover has certainly helped us to get access to several sites, and we also agree not to sue the landowner in case of an incident.

But I like to remind members that this is no excuse for having an accident.

The only downside, possibly because we are all Yorkshire based, is attempting to prise money out of members' pockets.


I know the feeling ;-)
IP: 82.31.98.113
SimonRL

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Joined: 27/11/2005
Location: North Wales

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BCA insurance ....
Posted: 28/03/2016 15:36:54
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ChrisJC wrote:

I would think your best bet is to get in touch with the BCA and get it from the horses mouth.

Chris.


As Chris said Smile

The BCA insurance is easy to get as a group. It doesn't have to be very clubby, it just needs an application form completing and a constitution.

The link exspelio gave will get you started. And if you need any information from the BCA drop Glenn a line on membership@british-caving.org.uk - he is extremely helpful and a real gent to deal with.

There is a sliding scale of cost for registering the club (based on the number of members) and then a flat fee per member for the insurance.

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IP: 217.9.203.183
NewStuff

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Joined: 26/07/2010
Location: NE Wales

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BCA insurance ....
Posted: 28/03/2016 18:45:23
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It's as easy as everyone has said, we did it a couple of years ago. If we can manage it, anyone can.


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IP: 86.160.45.77
mistericeman

Joined: 04/10/2009
Location: Ashton-under-Lyne (Manchester)

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BCA insurance ....
Posted: 28/03/2016 19:05:00
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Sounds ace folks thanks for all your help I'll get in touch with the relevant folks via the links above...

I guess in the end it will sadly come down to the cost involved (for the record I'm personally happy to pay £20/30 a year for the benefits) though some of the folks interested are from Yorkshire and drive old Landrovers.....
Rumour has it copper wire was invented after a fight between two of them over a 2p piece ;-)
IP: 82.31.98.113
royfellows

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Joined: 13/06/2007
Location: Great Wyrley near Walsall

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BCA insurance ....
Posted: 29/03/2016 21:00:17
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Beside the Public Liability Insurance BCA membership also includes a £250,000 indemnity to landowners in respect of any legal liability related to allowing underground access. This is an attractive proposition when approaching landowners for permission.

What you get for your money is BCA membership which includes the above, you don't just buy insurance.

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IP: 86.131.15.143
nickwilliams

Joined: 08/04/2015

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Posted: 29/03/2016 22:17:53
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The limit of indemnity is actually £5m. IP: 195.171.78.131
mistericeman

Joined: 04/10/2009
Location: Ashton-under-Lyne (Manchester)

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BCA insurance ....
Posted: 29/03/2016 23:04:04
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Thanks Roy....
It's actually see of the stuff like Parc/Rhiwbach etc that we are interested In visiting,
hence wishing to comply with the CAL Guidelines....

Though to be honest the whole BCA thing seems like a very beneficial arrangement.
IP: 82.31.98.113
royfellows

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Joined: 13/06/2007
Location: Great Wyrley near Walsall

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BCA insurance ....
Posted: 30/03/2016 20:15:28
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nickwilliams wrote:

The limit of indemnity is actually £5m.


Limit of insurance is £5M, landowner indemnity is £250,000 and a separate service provided directly by BCA.

Roy A Fellows, Cambrian Caving Council legal and insurance officer. Thank you.

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IP: 86.131.15.143
Moorebooks

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Joined: 28/11/2007
Location: Newport, Shropshire

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BCA insurance ....
Posted: 31/03/2016 10:30:08
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mistericeman wrote:

Thanks Roy....
It's actually see of the stuff like Parc/Rhiwbach etc that we are interested In visiting,
hence wishing to comply with the CAL Guidelines....

Though to be honest the whole BCA thing seems like a very beneficial arrangement.


I'm puzzled what you mean by beneficial arrangement? The BCA makes nothing from this apart from building up a small fund to cover the policy excess . The BCA is a National Organisation made up of Cavers and Mine Explorers doing the work voluntarily.

MIke
IP: 82.18.192.90
mistericeman

Joined: 04/10/2009
Location: Ashton-under-Lyne (Manchester)

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BCA insurance ....
Posted: 31/03/2016 10:32:42
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I meant that the BCA fee was very beneficial in terms of value for money compared to getting sued to death if there was ever any incident....

Never intended to imply anything else....
IP: 94.197.121.239
Manicminer

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Joined: 29/04/2007
Location: North Wales

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BCA insurance ....
Posted: 31/03/2016 10:40:38
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mistericeman wrote:

Just a though ...

I run a classic landrover forum/club with a small number of members (between 10/20) who have a great interest in exploring old mines and industrial archeology as a whole .
I'm aware that BCA insurance is a requirement for some sites and am just wondering about the best way of covering a small group of explorers OR is it only possible on a individual basis ???

any help would be very much appreciated folks cheers


For 10/20 members visiting various sites across the country it's probably easier to buy through something already established - http://www.aditnow.co.uk/Pages/Join-ANMHS-Aditnow-Mining-History-Society_16/

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Gold is where you find it
IP: 95.144.88.86
royfellows

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Joined: 13/06/2007
Location: Great Wyrley near Walsall

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BCA insurance ....
Posted: 31/03/2016 10:50:19
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mistericeman wrote:

I meant that the BCA fee was very beneficial in terms of value for money compared to getting sued to death if there was ever any incident....


Absolutely

There is some benefit for the landowner from the insurance in an indirect way.
A landowner who grants permission for underground access could be perceived as being potentially liable under the Occupiers Liability Act 1957 which covers permitted access. (The 1984 Act deals with trespassers). There is however an exemption where the permitted person is fully aware of the risks involved, understands them, and is prepared to accept them.

The fact of that person having public liability insurance covering underground exploration would be perceived in law as making that person a 'potholer', and a potholer would be perceived as knowing more about potholing than the landowner whose land contains the cave or mine.


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We are what we are through what we become.
IP: 86.131.15.143
nickwilliams

Joined: 08/04/2015

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Posted: 31/03/2016 12:14:42
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royfellows wrote:

nickwilliams wrote:

The limit of indemnity is actually £5m.


Limit of insurance is £5M, landowner indemnity is £250,000 and a separate service provided directly by BCA.

Roy A Fellows, Cambrian Caving Council legal and insurance officer. Thank you.


I'm a bit mystified by your response on this, Roy. There is only one BCA policy and I've just checked with the broker and they have confirmed that the limit of Indemnity to Principals is £5m.

Feel free to contact me directly if you want to discuss further and don't think this is an appropriate place to do so.

Nick Williams
BCA PL Scheme Manager
IP: 195.171.78.131
royfellows

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BCA insurance ....
Posted: 01/04/2016 11:03:41
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nickwilliams wrote:

royfellows wrote:

nickwilliams wrote:

The limit of indemnity is actually £5m.


Limit of insurance is £5M, landowner indemnity is £250,000 and a separate service provided directly by BCA.

Roy A Fellows, Cambrian Caving Council legal and insurance officer. Thank you.


I'm a bit mystified by your response on this, Roy. There is only one BCA policy and I've just checked with the broker and they have confirmed that the limit of Indemnity to Principals is £5m.

Feel free to contact me directly if you want to discuss further and don't think this is an appropriate place to do so.

Nick Williams
BCA PL Scheme Manager


I am mystified as well!
I shall try to dig out the paperwork, on disk somewhere. Yes, nothing to do with the Zurich public liability insurance but an arrangement through Access Controlling Bodies.

I am up at Nenthead at the moment and have limited facilities, but will definitely have it somewhere and will get back.


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IP: 86.172.156.119
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