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Mine Exploration Forum

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Author Vandalism in Browns Folly
rufenig

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Joined: 18/03/2008
Location: Shropshire Hills

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Vandalism in Browns Folly
Posted: 18/01/2016 11:06:23
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I know that Avon wildlife trust in some way manage the site.
But who is the mineral rights owner?
Anyone know?
IP: 146.199.27.227
exspelio

Joined: 02/05/2012
Location: peak district

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Vandalism in Browns Folly
Posted: 18/01/2016 11:18:41
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Think Hansons has been mentioned peviously?

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royfellows

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Joined: 13/06/2007
Location: Great Wyrley near Walsall

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Vandalism in Browns Folly
Posted: 18/01/2016 12:32:43
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This whole area is problematic.

Box was basically 'saved' by the blocking of the entrances many years ago, a blessing in disguise?

The easy entry point now being Jacks, witness the wall daubings, remains of 'camp fires' and rubbish. Go under the boulder to the black horse and it ends abruptly.

Farleigh Down railway passage looks like an extreme version of a New York subway.

Its not going to go away, and there is no answer to the issues at Browns. Fill in muddy hole and the life expectancy of gates on Shakespeare's reduces to days rather than months.


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Morlock

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Vandalism in Browns Folly
Posted: 18/01/2016 14:12:46
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rufenig wrote:

But who is the mineral rights owner?
Anyone know?


I suspect the mineral rights issue may be clouded by the MOD use of Monkton/Browns as WW2 ammunition storage?
The area of land around Muddy Hole also had a prefab MOD camp.

Bottom line is, who would be responsible in the event of an unfortunate UG accident?
IP: 81.129.23.215 Edited: 18/01/2016 14:44:35 by Morlock
rufenig

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Vandalism in Browns Folly
Posted: 18/01/2016 14:48:01
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Morlock wrote:


Bottom line is, who would be responsible in the event of an unfortunate UG accident?

Difficult
Would the Mine inspector take Avon wildlife as "Mine user"
They do not appear to be using the underground.
The trouble is that when something happens the gutter press and local politicians will be looking for someone to blame.
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royfellows

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Vandalism in Browns Folly
Posted: 18/01/2016 14:53:54
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rufenig wrote:

Morlock wrote:


Bottom line is, who would be responsible in the event of an unfortunate UG accident?

Difficult
Would the Mine inspector take Avon wildlife as "Mine user"
They do not appear to be using the underground.
The trouble is that when something happens the gutter press and local politicians will be looking for someone to blame.


Very true
The land with Muddy Hole is not AWT land as I understand it, although there is no fence to separate the different ownership. This explains why AWT have not gated it.

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rufenig

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Vandalism in Browns Folly
Posted: 18/01/2016 15:03:21
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There is also at least one more entrance mentioned regularly.
The danger is that after an accident the concrete trucks come out!
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Morlock

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Vandalism in Browns Folly
Posted: 18/01/2016 15:38:13
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rufenig wrote:


Difficult
Would the Mine inspector take Avon wildlife as "Mine user"
They do not appear to be using the underground.



As far as I can gather Browns has been inspected by a surveyor and considered to be unsafe for any work within. I also believe that any operations such as bat counting have been legally defined as 'work'.
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crickleymal

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Location: Gloucester

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Vandalism in Browns Folly
Posted: 18/01/2016 17:11:29
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Morlock wrote:

rufenig wrote:


Difficult
Would the Mine inspector take Avon wildlife as "Mine user"
They do not appear to be using the underground.



As far as I can gather Browns has been inspected by a surveyor and considered to be unsafe for any work within. I also believe that any operations such as bat counting have been legally defined as 'work'.


On that basis half the mines in the FoD would be out of bounds to bat counters. But they aren't.
One of the problems is AWT don't seem to want to discuss anything with anyone. I tried to get access via AWT and all I got was "out of bounds due to H&S". No discussion, nothing.
IP: 109.145.67.91 Edited: 18/01/2016 17:15:37 by crickleymal
Morlock

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Vandalism in Browns Folly
Posted: 18/01/2016 17:36:37
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crickleymal wrote:


One of the problems is AWT don't seem to want to discuss anything with anyone. I tried to get access via AWT and all I got was "out of bounds due to H&S". No discussion, nothing.


AWT will only discharge their duty to gate/make safe the entrances on their land, all other issues come under the 'Three Monkeys Rule'.Big Grin
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crickleymal

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Vandalism in Browns Folly
Posted: 18/01/2016 17:57:53
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I can see why they'd do that. But from what I experienced I doubt if they'd discuss anything. IP: 109.145.67.91
The Fresh Prince of Portreath

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Vandalism in Browns Folly
Posted: 18/01/2016 18:04:56
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The caving club response is the same thing as the EU IMO.

"Gosh, we've got a disaster on our hands, things are totally out of control".

Solution:- More EU required.
IP: 81.140.40.222
megalith42

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Joined: 24/01/2016
Location: East Somerset

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Vandalism in Browns Folly
Posted: 24/01/2016 23:03:16
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I have just joined this group (a few minutes ago) so I haven’t filled in all the profile stuff yet, but will do when I find out how to! I was prompted to join up because of a life-long interest in mines including a few years at the working face of a Bath stone mine and a passion for this particular mine.
I have been going down this hole in the ground for about 48 years. Yes it’s a long time, but much of the workings look the same now as they did in 1968. There have been changes of course. New entrances have appeared and old ones have been blocked. Small rockfalls have occurred and various digs have provided access to long forgotten workings. This mine has been the source of countless hours of enjoyment to those who have entered it. Geologists have observed Middle Jurassic geology from the “inside”. Historians have learned about the working methods and lives of the quarrymen. Others have simply found the mine a great place to walk about. Several contributors on this page however share my concern at the level of vandalism which seems to have become the norm recently in this wonderful place.
The mine is an important hibernation site for greater horseshoe bats, and I work with a team coordinated by Exeter University to study the numbers and migration of these in various mines in the region. We noticed that a large number of passages which previously provided air-flow, (enabling bats to assess temperature changes outside) have been blocked. We noticed throughout the entire workings, that walls have been built, graffiti has been removed (not just modern stuff, but original quarryman’s stuff dating back to Victorian times.
Now lets try and be objective about this. Those who have put effort into removing litter, cleaning out the stone-tank of detritus, removing modern graffiti etc. are to be commended: well done… but the person who is now building walls across passages, blocking passages he doesn’t want to use himself, putting thousands of small rocks all over the floor in the Clapham junction region, blocking the steel-gate entrance with concrete, putting mud all over walls to eradicate modern graffiti (eradicating the old stuff in the process), rearranging backfill covering up original quarryman’s writings, blocking the air vent near the southern entrance, using a lock which only he has a key for at the southern entrance… needs to be stopped.
So, Brian, well done for the cleaning up stuff, but now, will you please recognize that your OCD is now the prime driver of your activities, and see some specialist who can help you. Thinking of this mine as a landscape garden, and building little walls wherever you feel like is slowly destroying this beautiful piece of industrial archaeology. Self-appointing yourself as “caretaker” of the mine and making unilateral decisions to block entrances without consultation with any other parties with interests in the mine is grossly irresponsible.
I was interested to read the comments regarding whether AWT should become more involved with the issues within the mine. While I sympathise with the idea, I feel that there are dangers here. Any party whose assume a high level of responsibility for what is effectively a disused mine, is likely to undertake a safety assessment. While I am personally confident that, provided you don’t tempt providence, the ceilings in this working are unlikely to fall in, I (nor any person qualified to assess mine roofs) cannot say that it will not fall in. We cannot mitigate the hazard, but the obvious way to mitigate the risk would be to prohibit access. This has happened in other places.
This mine has been an important part of my life since I was twelve (out come the calculators) and I would dearly like to think that future generations will be able to enjoy it as much as I have. Let’s all work together before it’s too late, to save this place from being smashed.
IP: 146.200.232.181
royfellows

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Vandalism in Browns Folly
Posted: 25/01/2016 11:51:00
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The over sanitisation is what attracts the vandalism, the vandalism then attracts the over sanitisation. Each is feeding on the other.

Keep away, leave alone, all it needs is one element to be removed from the equation for the other to fail.

The big clean up after the all night raves is what attracts another one, if the perpetrators had to return to their own filth the attraction would diminish.

In time it may all settle, and then the place could be cleaned up a bit at a time by responsible people.

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JohnnearCfon

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Vandalism in Browns Folly
Posted: 25/01/2016 12:15:52
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I do not think that personal attacks (including questioning their mental health) has a place on Adit Now. I do not think he is even a member of AN (Brian I mean).

Perhaps the poster could edit his post or maybe a moderator should edit or delete it?
IP: 92.3.30.130
royfellows

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Vandalism in Browns Folly
Posted: 25/01/2016 12:43:07
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JohnnearCfon wrote:

I do not think that personal attacks (including questioning their mental health) has a place on Adit Now. I do not think he is even a member of AN (Brian I mean).

Perhaps the poster could edit his post or maybe a moderator should edit or delete it?


That is a fair comment John, I am uneasy about people being mentioned by name in certain contexts.
What PMs are for?

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JohnnearCfon

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Vandalism in Browns Folly
Posted: 25/01/2016 12:48:14
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This is normally a friendly forum unlike so many others. There is no place on here for what amounts to bullying. I wonder if that new member has his own agenda on this? IP: 92.3.30.130
Peter Burgess

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Location: Merstham. Or is it Godstone ...... ?

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Vandalism in Browns Folly
Posted: 25/01/2016 12:52:43
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Everyone has mental issues of one kind or another, it's what makes us different. Sometimes it doesn't matter, sometimes it does. For example, lack of empathy towards others who have different issues, is an issue in itself. Perhaps.

We should always try to be a good judge of ourselves before judging others.

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dave_the_cave

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Vandalism in Browns Folly
Posted: 25/01/2016 12:59:50
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royfellows wrote:

The over sanitisation is what attracts the vandalism, the vandalism then attracts the over sanitisation. Each is feeding on the other.


This is shite - the systematic destruction of the quarries historic artefacts has no justification

Those responsible know the quarry and the location of the artefacts extremely well.

The new poster sounds familiar and is probably (jonathon/wildside/jason) who plagues ukcaving and is one of those suspected of this systematic destruction.




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IP: 80.194.246.99 Edited: 25/01/2016 13:01:21 by dave_the_cave
royfellows

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Vandalism in Browns Folly
Posted: 25/01/2016 13:10:38
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dave_the_cave wrote:

royfellows wrote:

The over sanitisation is what attracts the vandalism, the vandalism then attracts the over sanitisation. Each is feeding on the other.


- the systematic destruction of the quarries historic artefacts has no justification



Does what I have said imply a justification?


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