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Mine Exploration Forum

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Author BCA / CRoW
droid

Joined: 31/10/2010
Location: Tamworth

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BCA / CRoW
Posted: 02/12/2014 20:01:57
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Quite.

Most of the complaints about CNCC are of an organisational nature, hence my comment.

Half the time I caved up there, though, it was with the Penzance Caving Club......Roll EyesLaugh
IP: 62.253.145.232
RJV

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Joined: 16/03/2008
Location: Cleveland

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BCA / CRoW
Posted: 02/12/2014 20:07:59
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Indeed. One of my club mates complained, "if CRoW comes in, where will the fun be"... IP: 82.145.221.244
NewStuff

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Joined: 26/07/2010
Location: NE Wales

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BCA / CRoW
Posted: 02/12/2014 21:43:13
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I voted yes.

Even though I am a mine explorer, and only have interest in a few caves, I would like others to have an easier time of access.

That said, even if down the road, it is accepted by DEFRA etc that CRoW *does* apply, it's not going to be a free for all. I don't think many people think this, however. Maybe I'm an optimist.

--

Searching for the ever elusive Underground Titty Bar.
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exspelio

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BCA / CRoW
Posted: 02/12/2014 21:54:39
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Congrats to all those voting 'yes', in my experience the 'no' voters are the 'glass half empty' lot, those voting 'yes' are the 'OI, who nicked my beer, this glass was full !' lotSmile

--

Always remember, nature is in charge, get it wrong and it is you who suffers!.
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royfellows

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Joined: 13/06/2007
Location: Great Wyrley near Walsall

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BCA / CRoW
Posted: 02/12/2014 22:06:56
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NewStuff wrote:

I voted yes.

That said, even if down the road, it is accepted by DEFRA etc that CRoW *does* apply, it's not going to be a free for all. I don't think many people think this, however. Maybe I'm an optimist.


The road to hell is paved with good intentions

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The expert in anything is really the true beginner, by becoming an expert so the knowledge for self advancement is acquired.
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RJV

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BCA / CRoW
Posted: 03/12/2014 08:25:06
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exspelio wrote:

Congrats to all those voting 'yes', in my experience the 'no' voters are the 'glass half empty' lot, those voting 'yes' are the 'OI, who nicked my beer, this glass was full !' lotSmile

I'm not sure that's fair. I suspect that there is a fairly equal balance of those who are well meaning and those who just like to argue on each side.
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royfellows

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BCA / CRoW
Posted: 03/12/2014 09:26:03
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As ye sow so shall ye reap

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The expert in anything is really the true beginner, by becoming an expert so the knowledge for self advancement is acquired.
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RJV

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BCA / CRoW
Posted: 03/12/2014 09:37:49
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Do you by any chance have one of those calendars which gives you a new saying each day Roy? Roll Eyes IP: 82.145.222.136 Edited: 03/12/2014 09:38:31 by RJV
Peter Burgess

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Location: Merstham. Or is it Godstone ...... ?

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BCA / CRoW
Posted: 03/12/2014 09:58:42
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Or the bad seamstress's advice "As you sew, so shall ye rip".


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royfellows

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BCA / CRoW
Posted: 03/12/2014 10:10:29
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I have another ready and waiting for when the time is right:

"I told you so"

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The expert in anything is really the true beginner, by becoming an expert so the knowledge for self advancement is acquired.
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JohnnearCfon

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BCA / CRoW
Posted: 03/12/2014 10:17:07
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exspelio wrote:

Congrats to all those voting 'yes', in my experience the 'no' voters are the 'glass half empty' lot, those voting 'yes' are the 'OI, who nicked my beer, this glass was full !' lotSmile


As you do not know me, I doubt you could make any such judgement with any degree of accuracy!Thumb Down
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royfellows

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BCA / CRoW
Posted: 03/12/2014 11:32:32
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Landowner in central Wales was very amicable until he got a letter from an official body telling him what he could and couldn’t do relative to mines on his own land.

If he sees any of you going in you’ll find out where I’m talking about.

CROW was the instigation for the Cwmystwyth grills

CROW is what has caused new fences to appear everywhere.

Under CROW if the is a man made drop more than 6 feet in depth landowner is under legal obligation to fence it, this is why daft bits of fencing appear that seem to do anything. Hollow in the ground, bit of a cliff etc

Just keep stirring the pot and see where it leads.

If someone wants to throw dirt at the “no” voters then here is my return shot.
“Lemmings”


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The expert in anything is really the true beginner, by becoming an expert so the knowledge for self advancement is acquired.
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Morlock

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BCA / CRoW
Posted: 03/12/2014 14:05:04
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royfellows wrote:

Landowner in central Wales was very amicable until he got a letter from an official body telling him what he could and couldn’t do relative to mines on his own land.

If he sees any of you going in you’ll find out where I’m talking about.

CROW was the instigation for the Cwmystwyth grills

CROW is what has caused new fences to appear everywhere.

Under CROW if the is a man made drop more than 6 feet in depth landowner is under legal obligation to fence it, this is why daft bits of fencing appear that seem to do anything. Hollow in the ground, bit of a cliff etc

Just keep stirring the pot and see where it leads.

If someone wants to throw dirt at the “no” voters then here is my return shot.
“Lemmings”


Very wise words Roy.

Just a personal experience during the last year in S. Wales.
After a bit of research I approached a small factory owner, (listed building apparently) about the possibilities of investigating some mine galleries under his premises, he said he had never heard of them, a little more questioning and he said they had been filled with concrete during renovations many years ago.
As I was walking back to my beat up 14 year old car he enquired if I worked for CADW, or a long list of other official bodies I'd never even heard of, he also asked for my 'phone number.

The following weekend I was in on the condition I left the camera in his office.

Draw your own conclusions!
IP: 109.151.200.236 Edited: 03/12/2014 14:06:23 by Morlock
royfellows

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BCA / CRoW
Posted: 03/12/2014 14:25:02
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I fear that by the time the lessons sink in it will be too late.

Welsh farmers are lovely people, ask if you can go in the mine and you gey told "go where you want to but shut the gates after you"

Try going on their land waving bits of paper and see where it gets you. I got off on the wrong foot with my "Land Aquired" notices until they got to know me better, all on an even keel now.

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The expert in anything is really the true beginner, by becoming an expert so the knowledge for self advancement is acquired.
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Peter Burgess

Joined: 01/07/2008
Location: Merstham. Or is it Godstone ...... ?

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BCA / CRoW
Posted: 03/12/2014 14:41:58
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I would always defer to someone with real and relevant experience on the ground, and what they judge to be the wise thing to do, than run with some idealist with some kind of revolutionary agenda to exercise their rights regardless of what any other stakeholder might think. Thanks Roy for your insight.

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The most useful idiot you can ever hope to meet...
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ttxela

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Joined: 04/09/2007
Location: Cambs

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BCA / CRoW
Posted: 03/12/2014 14:45:57
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Peter Burgess wrote:

I would always defer to someone with real and relevant experience on the ground, and what they judge to be the wise thing to do, than run with some idealist with some kind of revolutionary agenda to exercise their rights regardless of what any other stakeholder might think. Thanks Roy for your insight.


Indeed, I'm starting to question my wisdom in voting yes now Confused
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exspelio

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BCA / CRoW
Posted: 03/12/2014 15:22:51
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I appreciate Roys first hand experiences, but it begs the question;

'Would all this exclusion of underground sites have happened if they were originally included in the CRoW liability cover?'

It seems the landowners were responding to advice that holes were not included and they were liable, so they had to be made safe.

--

Always remember, nature is in charge, get it wrong and it is you who suffers!.
IP: 86.142.152.75
rufenig

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Joined: 18/03/2008
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BCA / CRoW
Posted: 03/12/2014 15:30:23
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exspelio wrote:


'Would all this exclusion of underground sites have happened if they were originally included in the CRoW liability cover?'

The specific sites that Roy has commented on are Mines, as such they are currently covered by Mines and Quarries regulations.
There has always been a requirement to "make safe" entrances.
When the land became "access land" the perceived risk increased leading directly to the fencing.
Crow does not, and can, not overide mining legislation.
IP: 80.189.39.21 Edited: 03/12/2014 15:31:42 by rufenig
sinker

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Joined: 13/12/2010
Location: North Wales.

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BCA / CRoW
Posted: 03/12/2014 15:34:45
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rufenig wrote:



There has always been a requirement to "make safe" entrances.
When the land became "access land" the perceived risk increased leading directly to the fencing.



Hmmm. Actually that sums up the situation quite well!

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It is possible to compromise in certain areas of life. When choosing a wife for example. But never when choosing a cravat. IP: 82.132.221.156
Peter Burgess

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BCA / CRoW
Posted: 03/12/2014 15:36:24
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I think we all appreciate the logic, but the points being made revolve around owners' instinctive reactions to being told what to do and what rules apply to their property by "officials".


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