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Author Cwmorthin vandalism AGAIN
rufenig

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Joined: 18/03/2008
Location: Shropshire Hills

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Cwmorthin vandalism AGAIN
Posted: 03/07/2014 08:31:37
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I have cross posted this so that everyone can be aware of the issue and the potential threat to free access from these actions.

(From Miles on Mine Explorer)
It's with regret that I have to report that some muppet has broken the main gate yesterday by attacking it with large angle grinder. Rather than just break the chain to get in, this person has gone to the trouble of cutting all the hinges off the gate and frame with the intent of preventing the gate being locked again.

The police have been on site all afternoon gathering forensics and are pursuing leads. The offender hasn't just caused serious criminal damage and committed breaking and entering, they have also endangered public safety by opening a secured mine on public access land.

This behaviour seriously jeopardises access for everyone, as keeping the mine accessible is entirely dependant on proving that it can be kept secured and safe. It also jeopardises my family business which depends on that mine.

Given the recent spate of idiots and the seriousness of the recent vandalism, I'm going to have to give some serious thought to the long term security and protection of the mine.


I hope that we all condem these actions and wish Miles a succesfull result.
IP: 80.189.151.220
Vanoord

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Location: North Wales

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Cwmorthin vandalism AGAIN
Posted: 03/07/2014 09:16:00
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That would suggest that whoever has done this wasn't doing it with the intention of gaining access - more that they intended to cause longer-term problems, whatever they might be.

--

Filling space until a new signature comes along...
IP: 81.139.182.201
rufenig

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Cwmorthin vandalism AGAIN
Posted: 03/07/2014 09:29:26
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I.M.H.O.

It would be usefull if someone could copy this onto Uk Caving.
This is an issue for ALL to see and be aware of.
IP: 80.189.151.220
Peter Burgess

Joined: 01/07/2008
Location: Merstham. Or is it Godstone ...... ?

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Cwmorthin vandalism AGAIN
Posted: 03/07/2014 09:58:08
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rufenig wrote:

I.M.H.O.

It would be usefull if someone could copy this onto Uk Caving.
This is an issue for ALL to see and be aware of.
Done.

--

The most useful idiot you can ever hope to meet...
IP: 82.69.118.115
Tamarmole

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Location: Tamar Valley

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Cwmorthin vandalism AGAIN
Posted: 03/07/2014 10:45:32
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Wasn't Cwmorthin described as a "sacrificial mine" in another recent thread...... enough said.

I do wonder how much the interweb contributes to issues like this. Given that mines like Cwm are plastered all over the net, is it surprising that they attract the attention of w***kers with angle grinders and personal agendas? Likewise would the CRTT have become some sort of macho right of passage without the publicity it has received online?

In a pre internet world you had to either be in the loop or be prepared to do a lot of fairly esoteric research and footslogging to find mines. Now a lot of it is available at the push of a button, I'm not sure that this is a good thing.

Is it too late to close Pandora's box....... is this even desirable?

IP: 86.152.99.99 Edited: 03/07/2014 10:53:10 by Tamarmole
Willy Eckerslyke

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Cwmorthin vandalism AGAIN
Posted: 03/07/2014 11:22:51
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Tamarmole wrote:

Wasn't Cwmorthin described as a "sacrificial mine" in another recent thread...... enough said

Just because one person used that term, it doesn't follow that it's right or should be encouraged. Cwmorthin is still a very special place with many areas that are seldom visited.

But I doubt if this is really about Cwmorthin at all. It looks far more like a dispute between individuals.
IP: 147.143.12.75
RJV

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Cwmorthin vandalism AGAIN
Posted: 03/07/2014 11:40:05
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Tamarmole wrote:

Given that mines like Cwm are plastered all over the net, is it surprising that they attract the attention of w***kers with angle grinders and personal agendas? Likewise would the CRTT have become some sort of macho right of passage without the publicity it has received online?

In a pre internet world you had to either be in the loop or be prepared to do a lot of fairly esoteric research and footslogging to find mines. Now a lot of it is available at the push of a button, I'm not sure that this is a good thing.

Is it too late to close Pandora's box....... is this even desirable?

In fairness the internet can't & shouldn't take blame for everything.

Whilst we thankfully don't really have a mine in the North that attracts the same sort of people that Cwmorthin can attract the only one that has suffered real problems in the past is Smallcleugh where a majority of the graffiti pre-dates any of the internet sites by some considerable time.

Willy Eckerslyke wrote:

Tamarmole wrote:

Wasn't Cwmorthin described as a "sacrificial mine" in another recent thread...... enough said

Just because one person used that term, it doesn't follow that it's right or should be encouraged.

I used the term but it certainly isn't my term & there was nothing positive implied by it at all.
IP: 82.19.131.200
Cat_Bones

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Joined: 07/06/2007
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Cwmorthin vandalism AGAIN
Posted: 03/07/2014 11:44:59
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Willy Eckerslyke wrote:

.

But I doubt if this is really about Cwmorthin at all. It looks far more like a dispute between individuals.


Agree with this. If it's someone who is genuinely interested in the mine who resents the place being locked down, then they would presumably research the place, realise the damage they're doing and the potential to lose access for everyone and then stop. It is well publicised online, though there is the possibility (probably fairly remote) that the individual(s) don't use the internet I suppose.

Seems far more vindictive than just someone objecting to the place being gated, or even someone with a chip on their shoulder about "empire-building". If I had to bet either way, I'd put my money on this being someone deliberately and knowingly jeopardising access...
IP: 82.15.117.67 Edited: 03/07/2014 11:45:23 by Cat_Bones
chrisj

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Location: Blaenau Ffestiniog

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Cwmorthin vandalism AGAIN
Posted: 03/07/2014 11:56:04
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Personally I would put money on it being individuals that have an issue with Miles. Back when there were problems with the gate at the bottom being winched out, I heard lots of anti Miles rumblings in Blaenau, and people accusing him of preventing access to the mine (dispite the fact that you could just e-mail for the code). My feeling is that someone has decided that since he has had to stop the e-mail for the code service (due to vandalism, not a hidden adgenda) it is a step towards stopping public access to the mine and that is why they are continually breaking the gate open. The irony is that their actions may cause the access issues that they are scared of. IP: 92.13.50.5
Cat_Bones

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Cwmorthin vandalism AGAIN
Posted: 03/07/2014 11:59:06
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Although in addition to the previous, there may be no motive at all... there's no accounting for spite or vandalism for the sake of vandalism. This is just the sort of thing which would have amused me to do when I was a teenager, though I'm ashamed to admit it now.

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chrisj

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Cwmorthin vandalism AGAIN
Posted: 03/07/2014 12:22:28
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There is that too Cat Bones.

It would seem to me to be someone that has an issue with there being a gate there, rather than someone just trying to get in.
IP: 92.13.50.5
Morlock

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Cwmorthin vandalism AGAIN
Posted: 03/07/2014 12:27:50
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Vanoord wrote:

That would suggest that whoever has done this wasn't doing it with the intention of gaining access - more that they intended to cause longer-term problems, whatever they might be.


I would suspect this is a very accurate assessment.
IP: 86.23.112.58
J25GTi

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Cwmorthin vandalism AGAIN
Posted: 03/07/2014 12:43:11
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I don't think idle speculation onto the motive of the perpetrator is of any help in this situation. It could have been anyone for any number of reasons. It might be malitious it might not be, until someone is caught we may never know.

In my opinion securing a mine shouldn't involve more than a 19mm nut and bolt, then anyone can access it, no need to email or phone for codes etc and then also no need for angle grinders, bolt croppers etc.
IP: 93.186.31.81
Morlock

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Cwmorthin vandalism AGAIN
Posted: 03/07/2014 12:50:44
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J25GTi wrote:

It might be malitious it might not be, until someone is caught we may never know.


Certainly malicious.

"malicious

adjective
characterized by malice; intending or intended to do harm.
"he was found guilty of malicious damage"
synonyms: spiteful, malevolent, hostile, bitter, venomous, poisonous, evil-intentioned, ill-natured, evil, baleful, vindictive, vengeful, vitriolic, rancorous, malign, malignant, pernicious, mean, nasty, harmful, hurtful, mischievous, destructive, wounding, cruel, unkind, defamatory"
IP: 86.23.50.217 Edited: 03/07/2014 13:25:24 by Morlock
royfellows

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Joined: 13/06/2007
Location: Great Wyrley near Walsall

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Cwmorthin vandalism AGAIN
Posted: 03/07/2014 14:12:18
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Specuation as to motive can be hopeless, some people who appear perfectly normal on the outside can be really screwed up on the inside, and no way to know.

There was a chap who was continually having the tyres on his car slashed, so he set up a hidden camera to catch the culprit. It turned out to be his next door neigbour who had always sympathised with him and often helped him to change a wheel.

A chap who I had known for years accused me of ruining his life, he had harboured a grudge against me for years.
It appears that when we were in our early twenties he asked me to lend him £2K when he was in a desperate fix. I didn't have the money anyway. But it was all my fault. Welcome to the planet Zod.

You couldn't make some of this up.

--

Qualifications? Well, being doing it for 30 years and I'm still here.
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J25GTi

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Cwmorthin vandalism AGAIN
Posted: 03/07/2014 14:53:20
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Morlock wrote:

J25GTi wrote:

It might be malitious it might not be, until someone is caught we may never know.


Certainly malicious.

"malicious

adjective
characterized by malice; intending or intended to do harm.
"he was found guilty of malicious damage"
synonyms: spiteful, malevolent, hostile, bitter, venomous, poisonous, evil-intentioned, ill-natured, evil, baleful, vindictive, vengeful, vitriolic, rancorous, malign, malignant, pernicious, mean, nasty, harmful, hurtful, mischievous, destructive, wounding, cruel, unkind, defamatory"


So you can use a dictionary? Thumbs Up

People work in odd ways, they might not even be aware of how they have upset people, it cant be malicious if they didnt intend to be - spiteful, malevolent, hostile, bitter, venomous, poisonous, evil-intentioned, ill-natured, evil, baleful, vindictive, vengeful, vitriolic, rancorous, malign, malignant, pernicious, mean, nasty, harmful, hurtful, mischievous, destructive, wounding, cruel, unkind, defamatory"

Totally with Roy here
IP: 109.144.211.34
Tamarmole

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Cwmorthin vandalism AGAIN
Posted: 03/07/2014 15:02:01
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J25GTi wrote:

Morlock wrote:

J25GTi wrote:

It might be malitious it might not be, until someone is caught we may never know.


Certainly malicious.

"malicious

adjective
characterized by malice; intending or intended to do harm.
"he was found guilty of malicious damage"
synonyms: spiteful, malevolent, hostile, bitter, venomous, poisonous, evil-intentioned, ill-natured, evil, baleful, vindictive, vengeful, vitriolic, rancorous, malign, malignant, pernicious, mean, nasty, harmful, hurtful, mischievous, destructive, wounding, cruel, unkind, defamatory"


So you can use a dictionary? Thumbs Up

People work in odd ways, they might not even be aware of how they have upset people, it cant be malicious if they didnt intend to be - spiteful, malevolent, hostile, bitter, venomous, poisonous, evil-intentioned, ill-natured, evil, baleful, vindictive, vengeful, vitriolic, rancorous, malign, malignant, pernicious, mean, nasty, harmful, hurtful, mischievous, destructive, wounding, cruel, unkind, defamatory"

Totally with Roy here


Off topic but aren't you supposed to be at work?
IP: 86.152.99.99
J25GTi

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Cwmorthin vandalism AGAIN
Posted: 03/07/2014 15:05:50
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Tamarmole wrote:

J25GTi wrote:

Morlock wrote:

J25GTi wrote:

It might be malitious it might not be, until someone is caught we may never know.


Certainly malicious.

"malicious

adjective
characterized by malice; intending or intended to do harm.
"he was found guilty of malicious damage"
synonyms: spiteful, malevolent, hostile, bitter, venomous, poisonous, evil-intentioned, ill-natured, evil, baleful, vindictive, vengeful, vitriolic, rancorous, malign, malignant, pernicious, mean, nasty, harmful, hurtful, mischievous, destructive, wounding, cruel, unkind, defamatory"


So you can use a dictionary? Thumbs Up

People work in odd ways, they might not even be aware of how they have upset people, it cant be malicious if they didnt intend to be - spiteful, malevolent, hostile, bitter, venomous, poisonous, evil-intentioned, ill-natured, evil, baleful, vindictive, vengeful, vitriolic, rancorous, malign, malignant, pernicious, mean, nasty, harmful, hurtful, mischievous, destructive, wounding, cruel, unkind, defamatory"

Totally with Roy here


Off topic but aren't you supposed to be at work?


Off topic but aren't YOU supposed to be at work? Shocked

I am at work, just getting distracted with the internet while doing some quotes and 5 yearly certificates!
IP: 109.144.211.34
Morlock

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Cwmorthin vandalism AGAIN
Posted: 03/07/2014 15:46:19
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How silly of me to suggest someone lugged a large disc cutter up there without prior planning or intent.LaughLaughLaugh

Edit: Time may possibly tell.

IP: 82.26.129.182 Edited: 03/07/2014 15:47:25 by Morlock
Cat_Bones

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Cwmorthin vandalism AGAIN
Posted: 03/07/2014 16:31:07
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It may well be idle speculation, it might not help, but it doesn't hurt anyone either... unless people start naming names!
My understanding is that there's a lock on there rather than a bolt due to the conditions imposed by the landowner?
IP: 82.15.117.67 Edited: 03/07/2014 16:31:22 by Cat_Bones
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