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Author How does it happen?
Roy Morton

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Joined: 09/10/2007
Location: Redruth Cornwall

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Posted: 01/08/2013 01:23:51
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I was browsing YouTube for mining related vids, and as anyone who has spent more than a few minutes on the site knows, you can end up in some pretty strange places.
I found myself watching the worst film ever made...or was it?
this is so bad it could be considered good..in a bad sort of way.
That probably won't make any sense at all without having seen the movie first.
Features;-
Story..........It needs one
Continuity...Sometimes
Script..........Is there?
Acting..........Far too much!
Sets.............Appalling!
Props...........Hilarious!
Special FX.....Eat your heart out Mr Spielberg!

Great scene in the cockpit of a plane at 00:4:10
and check out the police car racing to one scene, fitted with roof mounted siren and lights. Check it again in the next scene as it pulls up.

Real solid (oak) performances by everyone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5DZhDH8eew

Sorry..... Off Topic

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'Bid me discourse, I will enchant thine ear'
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remoteneeded

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Joined: 12/11/2007
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Posted: 01/08/2013 01:52:35
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Ah Plan 9 From Outer Space. This has a reputation of being the greatest B-movie of all time. Oh it's bad, really bad, therefore it's great Big Grin This quote from Rotten tomatoes sums it up beautifully:

"With its incoherent plot, jaw-droppingly odd dialogue, inept acting, threadbare production design, and special effects so shoddy that they border on the surreal, Plan 9 From Outer Space has often been called the worst movie ever made. But it's an oddly endearing disaster; boasting genuine enthusiasm and undeniable charm, it is the work of people who loved movies and loved making them, even if they displayed little visible talent."
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Roy Morton

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Posted: 01/08/2013 02:35:35
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Yep, I checked out the RT review too and it's bang on.
Some pretty odd things going on in the film too. One of the police cars has a semi redacted number plate Blink
I also like the choice of furniture in the alien space ship and the electronic equipment scattered about. Note the Variac (variable transformer) on the wall to open the door. Laugh

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royfellows

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Location: Great Wyrley near Walsall

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Posted: 01/08/2013 08:20:07
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I can remember a 1950s SciFi movie where the alien was an actor in silver overalls who was living in a cave and preparing to unleash a weapon of mass destruction on ther world in the form of a mirror on a kitchen table.

Against all this the the 1953 War of the Worlds is watchable today

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Yorkshireman

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Posted: 01/08/2013 08:47:37
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"Against all this the the 1953 War of the Worlds is watchable today"

The book is one of my favourite H.G. Wells novels.

I've always thought that he films (the 1953 version and the 2005 Spielberg remake) miss the point entirely. The novel is full of criticism of the attitudes and prejudices (the insane clergyman) of the Victorian age, particularly attacking the belief in the (purely superficial) splendour of British imperialism and the invincibility of its "state of the art" weapons (Thunderchild and the artillery).

At the same time the artilleryman and his belief in a new world in the sewers illustrate the weaknesses of Utopian systems and lays bare Wells' socialist roots and beliefs.

Then, at the end of the day, bacteria win the war without out any human intervention (or maybe some - from
Martians eating Englishmen)

It should (must!) be set in the Victorian era and depict the arrogance of the industrial and military complex and the vulnerability that underlies it. Instead, it always turns into a sickening "God bless America" action movie.

Spielberg missed a great chance to put it all into the right context. The artwork of the Jeff Wayne's WOTW "musical" perfectly captured the atmosphere as it should have been.

My rant for today
Cheers
D.
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royfellows

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Posted: 01/08/2013 10:09:14
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Yorkshireman wrote:



"Against all this the the 1953 War of the Worlds is watchable today"

The book is one of my favourite H.G. Wells novels.

I've always thought that he films (the 1953 version and the 2005 Spielberg remake) miss the point entirely. The novel is full of criticism of the attitudes and prejudices (the insane clergyman) of the Victorian age, particularly attacking the belief in the (purely superficial) splendour of British imperialism and the invincibility of its "state of the art" weapons (Thunderchild and the artillery).

At the same time the artilleryman and his belief in a new world in the sewers illustrate the weaknesses of Utopian systems and lays bare Wells' socialist roots and beliefs.

Then, at the end of the day, bacteria win the war without out any human intervention (or maybe some - from
Martians eating Englishmen)

It should (must!) be set in the Victorian era and depict the arrogance of the industrial and military complex and the vulnerability that underlies it. Instead, it always turns into a sickening "God bless America" action movie.

Spielberg missed a great chance to put it all into the right context. The artwork of the Jeff Wayne's WOTW "musical" perfectly captured the atmosphere as it should have been.

My rant for today
Cheers
D.


I agree, and Jeff Wayne WOTW is my favourite music, however a few points.
Wells was at least 10 years behind the times in his understanding of the military technology of the time, assuming that the war takes place in 1898 being the year the book was written.
The ‘Thunder Child’ was quite obviously the Polythemus, being the famous torpedo ram of the Victorian era named after the son of the Greek god of thunder and the seas, by 1898 obsolete. The Channel fleet of the time was mostly composed of Majestic class (Barnaby era) battleships whose main armament was 12 inch wire guns capable of firing shells that weighed over a ton for a range of 6 miles.
The Martians primary weapon was the heat ray which as a linear point target weapon incapable of indirect fire, it is therefore logical that the heavy guns of the time would have been able to engage the Martian machines before they could bring their heat rays to bear. The Martian machines were very vulnerable to shell fire as the book describes in a direct hit from a 12 pounder.
The ‘black smoke; a form of poison gas was also of limited range, and could be bad news for whoever deploys it if the wind changes direction as was found out in the first world war.
To go even further with my arguments, the Martians came here with no logistical support at all, the book describes incidents where several Martian personnel would have died and this is through the eyes of a narrator and therefore only references incidents seen by that person so could logically be the tip of an iceberg. How would they have replaced the mounting losses?
We had a similar situation in the second world war where we could easily replace lost planes but struggled to come up with pilots to fly them. The Martians had no means at all of replacing personnel at all.
Humanity was taken completely by surprise, but how long would it have taken to get organised. By 1898 there was a telegraph infrastructure.
The book also refers to “rumours of automatic mines” being deployed. These would have certainly brought down the Martian machines. Taking the book at face value, I think the Martians would have lost anyway.


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Better a NAMHO delegate than an organiser, that way you just get the disappointments not the aggro. LOL
IP: 2.98.235.242 Edited: 01/08/2013 10:11:25 by royfellows
grahami

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Posted: 01/08/2013 11:07:58
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Leaving aside the various arguments, the thing I most remember about the 1953 version is the superb shots of the "Flying Wing" - no special effect that, but the genuine article and the forebear of todays B2 "stealth" bombers. Quite unstable especially the jet version, however, and really needed modern computer technology to make it viable, they reckon the original could have glided for hundreds of miles. Built by the same company too, Northrop. (oh dear, betraying my imperialistic militaristic leanings......)

Grahami

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SimonRL

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Posted: 01/08/2013 11:13:50
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Does anybody remember the atrocious late 1980s TV series of the same name? It was compulsively bad!

"To life immortal" Indeed Laugh

Off Topic Laugh
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Yorkshireman

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Posted: 01/08/2013 11:19:15
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Excellent analysis, Roy, strategy and all.

Assuming of course that the black smoke was also lethal to the Martians. If I remember rightly, the book has a passage describing the tripods wading through the smoke and "mopping up" with jets of steam.

As to logistics - didn't Wells mention further vehicles launched from Mars? And the Martians seem to have brought industrial capability as well - some kind of self-replicating machines that produced ingots and left behind piles of "sand" - sounds like extracting aluminium to me. As their ships had no propulsion, it was obvious they had come to stay, and would very probably cannibalise their transport as well. The reproduction of the Martians is unclear - maybe by budding from an adult. As to food, we already know what they ate.

And what was the "heat ray"? A laser fits in with your analysis, but to me, a scanning microwave source seems to fit in better with the effects described. And wasn't it mounted on a snake-like, flexible neck?
Cheers
D.

BTW: The idea of self-replicating (von Neumann) machines is part of the concept for the further exploration of Mars.
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RJV

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Posted: 01/08/2013 11:22:44
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SimonRL wrote:

Does anybody remember the atrocious late 1980s TV series of the same name? It was compulsively bad!

"To life immortal" Indeed Laugh

Off Topic Laugh


Yes, just about. Not a patch on the slightly earlier but infinitely superior Day of the Triffids tv series...
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Yorkshireman

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Posted: 01/08/2013 11:24:33
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grahami wrote:

Leaving aside the various arguments, the thing I most remember about the 1953 version is the superb shots of the "Flying Wing" - no special effect that, but the genuine article and the forebear of todays B2 "stealth" bombers. Grahami


Northrop should have taken a closer look at the work of the Horten brothers that the Yanks took with them from Germany.

The had already eliminated most of the bugs from the flying-wing (or at least tail-less) concept by 1944-45.

Cheers
D.
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royfellows

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Posted: 01/08/2013 11:43:44
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Some more
Conspicuous by its absence from the book is ‘Lord Taka Taka’ responsible for the defeat of the Matabele in Africa, the Maxim Machine Gun. Its cyclic rate of fire of 600 rounds per minute would have guaranteed many multiple hits on a machine that was proved to be vulnerable to shell fire.
The other is that there was another WOTW made in 2005 by Pendragon Pictures. You can get if now on DVD direct. Pretty awful, but it does closely adhere to Wells original story.


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IP: 2.98.235.242 Edited: 01/08/2013 11:44:14 by royfellows
Dolcoathguy

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Posted: 01/08/2013 12:55:48
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What slightly annoys me is why Aliens or future societies portrayed in various sci-fi films and TV series feel that all mining should be done by slaves or prisoners with basic tools.

They invariably go on to show prisoners / slaves escaping from or destroying the mine unless they meet the alien monster that makes tunnels as though carving through butter.

My conclusion is that any rock drill company (laser or otherwise) could make a real killing by selling to these civilisations.



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Digit

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Posted: 01/08/2013 13:22:05
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There are many things that annoy/puzzle me about much of SF on film. Why do so many characters have an energy weapon in one hand and a sword hanging from their belts? Battery technology not improved! Why can all spacecraft of whatever origin or size dock successfully with each other? Must have learned of the NASA Imperial/Metic mistake. Why can instrument/computing systems have sufficient compatability to be interconnectable? Just try connecting a USB3 device to a RS232 port. I could go on and on but I won't.

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IP: 81.178.3.180 Edited: 01/08/2013 13:31:49 by Digit
Yorkshireman

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Posted: 01/08/2013 13:31:47
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Dolcoathguy wrote:

What slightly annoys me is why Aliens or future societies portrayed in various sci-fi films and TV series feel that all mining should be done by slaves or prisoners with basic tools.


You mean you don't think things have changed enough from our own recent history? Big Grin

First rule of the Doctor Who Handbook - find tunnel and run down it. Preferably one dug by slaves or prisoners with basic tools who look at least half humanoid and deserve to be freed. Wink

Swords are for chivalrous killing, ray guns are for gratuitous killing and nice electronic sound FX.

Spacecraft connections are the same as interspecies connections in some sci-fi films - they always fit.

D.
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royfellows

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Posted: 01/08/2013 13:55:29
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When we were working down Talybont in miserable conditions:

"The crew of the Enterprise are now prisoners of the Klingon Empire forced into slave labour in the mines of Alpha 4"

As weeks wore on, the crew of the Enterprise did diminish somewhat

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Blober

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Posted: 01/08/2013 14:34:40
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Dolcoathguy wrote:

My conclusion is that any rock drill company (laser or otherwise) could make a real killing by selling to these civilisations.



Eimco intergalactic? Laugh

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grahami

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Posted: 01/08/2013 15:00:53
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Yorkshireman wrote:

grahami wrote:

Leaving aside the various arguments, the thing I most remember about the 1953 version is the superb shots of the "Flying Wing" - no special effect that, but the genuine article and the forebear of todays B2 "stealth" bombers. Grahami


Northrop should have taken a closer look at the work of the Horten brothers that the Yanks took with them from Germany.

The had already eliminated most of the bugs from the flying-wing (or at least tail-less) concept by 1944-45.

Cheers
D.



Yes - the Flying Wings were in part based on Hortens' work, but on a much larger scale. By all accounts the propellor driven ones were actually better (stability wise) than the jet version due to the massive contra-rotating propellors. The story makes for interesting reading.

Grahami

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exspelio

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Posted: 01/08/2013 18:11:05
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Dolcoathguy wrote:

What slightly annoys me is why Aliens or future societies portrayed in various sci-fi films and TV series feel that all mining should be done by slaves or prisoners with basic tools.



Aah, so thats where my mine manager and shift bosses got their ideas from!! Smile

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IP: 81.153.182.117 Edited: 01/08/2013 18:12:26 by exspelio
grahami

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Posted: 01/08/2013 23:11:25
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exspelio wrote:

Dolcoathguy wrote:

What slightly annoys me is why Aliens or future societies portrayed in various sci-fi films and TV series feel that all mining should be done by slaves or prisoners with basic tools.



Aah, so thats where my mine manager and shift bosses got their ideas from!! Smile


Yes - they obviously havn't read E.E.Smith's Skylark series for weaponry (range of multiple thousands of light years), or the later "Masters of Space" with its completey robotic uranium strip mining operation.....

Grahami

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