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Author Surfers and Marine Minerals Limited
lozz

Joined: 03/08/2012
Location: Cornwall

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Surfers and Marine Minerals Limited
Posted: 01/05/2013 12:21:11
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So far as I am aware no technical details have been given as to the exact workings of Marine Minerals proposed extraction methods, maybe they are developing a new system and for commercial reasons don't want to give the game away at this point in time.

There are various regulatory agencies in place to check on things and keep Marine Minerals or anybody else in their place, I really can't see what the fuss is about only insofar that SAS always want to be seen as the good guys and that they can claim credit for all things great and good.

As has been said before by others in this thread, SAS should stick to sewerage issues.

Lozz.
IP: 86.163.129.212
christwigg

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Joined: 20/02/2008
Location: Cleveland / North Yorkshire

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Surfers and Marine Minerals Limited
Posted: 01/05/2013 12:27:12
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Or at least change their name to 'Surfers Against Everything'

'SAE' has a nice ring to it Smile
IP: 145.8.104.65
Trewillan

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Surfers and Marine Minerals Limited
Posted: 01/05/2013 18:34:46
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christwigg wrote:

Or at least change their name to 'Surfers Against Everything'

'SAE' has a nice ring to it Smile


Surfers Hate Industry and Tourism is probably a non-starter?
IP: 94.72.252.104
stuey

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Surfers and Marine Minerals Limited
Posted: 01/05/2013 18:41:54
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YAP: Yoghurtweavers Against Progress.

I don't think wavesliding has anything to do with it anymore.
IP: 46.208.116.197
Peter Burgess

Joined: 01/07/2008
Location: Merstham. Or is it Godstone ...... ?

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Surfers and Marine Minerals Limited
Posted: 01/05/2013 18:47:16
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I don't know why you are moaning about them here. Wouldn't a surfers' website be a more appropriate place? A discussion on here on the merits or otherwise of the mineral extraction might be a better use of your time and bandwidth. Thinking of silly names for a group of activists is a trifle immature, methinks.

Roy's post was interesting - more like that, please.

--

The most useful idiot you can ever hope to meet...
IP: 92.10.168.216 Edited: 01/05/2013 18:48:19 by Peter Burgess
lozz

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Surfers and Marine Minerals Limited
Posted: 01/05/2013 19:17:44
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I think moaning about SAS on a surfing website would be a bit like shouting christmas in a turkey hut.

The merits of MM's venture if it comes to fruition would be jobs and export, something we desperately need down here, I'm ok, I'm lucky I was of a time when I could walk out of one job into another and earn good money with one pair of hands, I have enough to eat and a place to live that I can call my own, it's not like that now for many, too many in my opinion, many youngsters will never have that opportunity as they progress through life, I think that some of these anti groups should think about that and think about it hard.

Lozz.

IP: 86.163.129.212
SimonRL

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Joined: 27/11/2005
Location: North Wales

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Surfers and Marine Minerals Limited
Posted: 01/05/2013 20:05:58
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Come on Stuey, gives us the facts and figures Thumbs Up IP: 86.155.109.9
lozz

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Location: Cornwall

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Surfers and Marine Minerals Limited
Posted: 01/05/2013 20:11:15
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What's going on here then....?

Lozz.
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SimonRL

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Surfers and Marine Minerals Limited
Posted: 01/05/2013 20:19:30
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lozz wrote:

What's going on here then....?

Lozz.


Nothing untoward Smile I was just curious for what the arguments from both sides was - without wading through offsite links which I haven't time for at the minute - what the financial and job projections are, etc.
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lozz

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Surfers and Marine Minerals Limited
Posted: 01/05/2013 20:33:01
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SimonRL wrote:

lozz wrote:

What's going on here then....?

Lozz.


Nothing untoward Smile I was just curious for what the arguments from both sides was - without wading through offsite links which I haven't time for at the minute - what the financial and job projections are, etc.


Web wise I have tried to find out but every time I Google Marine Minerals I get Surfers Against Sewage.....
I am guessing that MM's figures are still in the air yet and that anything else is guestimate until all their studies/testing etc reaches some kind of conclusion, if they do go ahead then some jobs is better than no jobs, their techniques might turn out to be an exportable or licensed quantity which would make it even better. All that said it is a known fact that tin and other useful minerals lie offshore on the north coast of Cornwall both from activities going back 200 years or more and by erosion over millenia. Hat's off if they can do it.

Lozz.
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stuey

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Surfers and Marine Minerals Limited
Posted: 01/05/2013 21:22:43
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Peter, I don't want to wade into it in too much depth, because I work with people and work with "stuff" to do with some of the projects and everyone really knows everyone.

It is a very interesting time indeed. I don't think we'll see a return to underground mining for some time, but I think we will see minerals being dredged/opencast quite soon. This is potentially a good think for the local earth sciences and heavy industry lot. It is some of the best news Cornwall has had for ages.

I cannot voice my contempt strongly enough for SAS who have gone off half cocked and prematurely ejaculated a load of hysteria throughout the media. Naturally, I am apt to call them names. I think they deserve it.

This isn't about dredging, or surf, it's about empire building and the dollars which come with it.....charity dollars.



IP: 46.208.116.197 Edited: 01/05/2013 21:32:53 by stuey
Roland Chambers

Joined: 07/09/2010

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Surfers and Marine Minerals Limited
Posted: 01/05/2013 21:54:30
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So, in summary, out of two threads on this subject we have been able to muster one sensible post raising genuine scientific concerns about this method of extraction, and lots of posts saying surfers are wankers.

IP: 81.135.43.219
lozz

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Surfers and Marine Minerals Limited
Posted: 01/05/2013 22:38:09
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Yep, seems like it, now we need a sea bed scientist...probably take the same view to oyster dredging etc...can't win with the hell benters, no point in trying, ignore them is the best route and just watch them stomp their feet cry.
Under regulation I can't see it becoming an eco disaster what ever that is....it was according to some an eco disaster to build the Goss Moor bypass, can't see why.
I'm eco friendly, as much as I can be that is but I am not a member of any eco group or any other group for that matter. If my butts freezing I cut a tree down for the firewood, tough titty on the tree and it's inhabitants but they will be back, nature will take care of that.
Many an old disused mining area is heaven for much wildlife.

Lozz.
IP: 86.163.129.212
Roland Chambers

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Surfers and Marine Minerals Limited
Posted: 01/05/2013 23:35:43
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I am torn between wanting this thread to die and not wanting to let you have the last word. IP: 81.135.43.219
Ty Gwyn

Joined: 30/10/2009
Location: Lampeter

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Surfers and Marine Minerals Limited
Posted: 02/05/2013 00:05:36
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Roland Chambers wrote:

So, in summary, out of two threads on this subject we have been able to muster one sensible post raising genuine scientific concerns about this method of extraction, and lots of posts saying surfers are wankers.

What is the difference with this method of extraction and normal sand dredging?

What about the winter storms that move seabed sand around?
IP: 217.43.126.254
exspelio

Joined: 02/05/2012
Location: peak district

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Surfers and Marine Minerals Limited
Posted: 02/05/2013 00:12:37
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I gather (from Countryfile) that they are dumping old tyres in the sea to make artificial reefs to create surf for the surfers;
Can anyone verify this?
Anyone care to comment?

--

Always remember, nature is in charge, get it wrong and it is you who suffers!.
IP: 86.131.144.78
stuey

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Surfers and Marine Minerals Limited
Posted: 02/05/2013 00:13:40
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Roland, I like your appeal to authority with your "scientific" word use.

Roy has an interesting old document regarding a feasibility study done a long time ago with a similar deposit. It is not a new idea. They didn't have surfers against sewage making a big fuss and there is a whole lot of data about the particle sizes, the milling requirements and the sort of yields they expected from their sampling. I am not interested in sedimentary deposits, it is of interest how things are separated by natural processes...to a surprising degree.

It doesn't take a vast amount of knowledge to realise that the deposits off the Godrevy and those off Trevellas are hugely different in every way. The only realistic way of making sense out of this is to do a fair load of sampling. I imagine this has a specific set of laws concerning it. Perhaps it doesn't. Perhaps sampling is considered not to be invasive. There will be a statute regarding this and if it isn't, it will probably be covered by the broad scope of later legislation.

When it comes down to it, we don't live in some sort of financially sustainable eutopia where we can all grow some potatoes, or make some wooden things and live well, this means that we have to do stuff and in order to sustain what is a high consuming economy, we need to carry out these sorts of activity. Only a total idiot, or someone who is factoring in using another planet's resources would argue this is the case. Since we insist on having this level of population and we all have a right to XYZ in law, it follows that our activities may impinge on other living stuff. Namely the habitats where this is happening....

So, I'm guessing what happens next is we consider the nature of the environment, how special it is and whether we can allow a big sucky tube to ****** it up. Here is where the **** hits the fan. All the yoghurt weavers say "Here is where the lesser spotted stripey whelk lives and they will be turned to dust" and all the capitalist tory pigs say "let's ruin it". Again, I imagine the cost/impact analysis will run up against some major legislation. What will not happen is that a big tooled up boat will show up and do what it wants. This will be dealt with by the nth degree.

I am of the opinion that buggering up a small percentage of habitat is necessary to facilitate the scale of the economy that the country requires. They can change this by making fundamental, structural changes, but the political class will not act, so we have to go back to money making compromises which kill a few starfish and break a few shells.

The whole exercise is hugely regulated and almost paralysed by red tape. The yields are potentially good, but the whole pilot, testing, deposit modelling, environmental this, yada yada that are hugely detailed and expensive. It's not like the days of South Caradon where some men with a wheelbarrow, spade and picks discovered one of the most major copper mines, the investors demand the total integrity of the project. It has all of the crap and pitfalls factored in.

Among the first people to know where a cadmium rich sediment is going to bugger up the greater crested spoonbill are the people who are funding it.

It would also make sense to think about the deposit in the context of history. You only have to look at the surf when it's 20ft and realise there is a lot of shit being moved around. Clearly, there is a set of equilibria where you have a whole load of different sized particles composed of different stuff which are settling at different rates, decomposing at different rates, being mixed and transported at different rates. This would obviously be highly localised in nature. Which again would dictate lots of sampling.

When anyone opens a mine in search of stuff which they can flog to someone for a profit, there will be a load of people saying "You can't disturb that ancient monument" (how the hell did anyone allow people to sink shafts within castle-an-dinas?) "You have horrible water which will kill the oysters". or another myriad of scenarios and the associated legislation which prevents some horrible capitalist pig like Scorrier Williams making a Copperopolis and filling valleys of lambs with poisonous smoke and the sea with sulphuric acid.

I am most certainly not a yoghurt weaver...even though I have a beard and do not care for fashion. A lot of my thinking and economic curiosity is borne out of reading two books, which will shape people's take on "stuff" and the problem we are in.

Namely "The End of Work" (Rifkin) - Basically explains the increase of the state sector in response to unemployment and mechanisation, ultimately resulting in a credit confidence failure and the whole thing shitting itself. Then what the hell happens? Major question. No-one seems to have a plan.

Them "The end of growth" (Heinburg) An expanding population requires growth to facilitate it's wellbeing. Problem is that unsustainable land/energy costs/population/etc means that this is not possible. Hence "getting back to growth" is not an option.

I do read a lot of this stuff, I feel that I have a pretty good grasp of the main (concepts) problems which serious debate, research and action is required, in order to stave off a pretty unpalatable future which is otherwise inevitable. Sadly, the big show which will affect your ability to feed/clothe/shelter your family is not the lesser spotted spoonbill at St Agnes or the fact that someone removed 1% of a bit of your surfing reef, it's the fact that we do not live in some archaic community with enough spuds to go around and if they don't get a grip with the actual economy, the shit will hit the fan in a way which is very nasty for a lot of undeserving (see, I am a lefty really) people.

No amount of charitable donations or nanny state printing money is going to sort this predicament out, nor are bloody windmills. SAS have demonstrated by their one sided debate that they do not understand the seriousness of the economic issues. This is pseudo-religious stupidity in my book.

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Ty Gwyn

Joined: 30/10/2009
Location: Lampeter

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Surfers and Marine Minerals Limited
Posted: 02/05/2013 00:55:28
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Sadly,its not only SAS that don`t understand the dire situation we are in,our governments seem to be from a different planet,
Without products to sell and export,we hav`nt a hope in hell of getting out of debt.
IP: 217.43.126.254
Roy Morton

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Joined: 09/10/2007
Location: Redruth Cornwall

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Surfers and Marine Minerals Limited
Posted: 02/05/2013 02:38:32
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I'm guessing that extraction methods, i.e. getting the stuff up off the seabed, won't have changed too much since the 60's and 70's. It's probably still going to be a big hoover.
All the rest certainly has. GPS versus Decca Navigator....no contest. It would certainly be interesting to see what else turns up in the screens besides rocks and sea creatures.
Ships have foundered along that strip of coast for centuries and who knows what sort of ordnance might show up. Fishing boats are always trawling up WWII shells and mines.
However....sometime in the past I read a book which mentioned that a ship, inbound from the states crashed into Cligga head spilling its cargo of gold dust, valued at the time (1840 ish) at £500,000. Todays valuation would be astronomical. Mining at Cligga? spend the money on research and then dredge, I'm sure there would be some change left over Laugh I wish I could remember the book though.......anyone?

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'Bid me discourse, I will enchant thine ear'
IP: 86.153.210.189
stuey

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Surfers and Marine Minerals Limited
Posted: 02/05/2013 07:14:11
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There would be enough money to put all the fish in harrods fishbowls in the Penventon for the duration!

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