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Mine Exploration Forum

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Author Wheal Harriett or Dolcoath
Peter Burgess

Joined: 01/07/2008
Location: Merstham. Or is it Godstone ...... ?

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Wheal Harriett or Dolcoath
Posted: 22/10/2012 18:56:07
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derrickman wrote:

I picked up a few scraps about this from colleagues. The names currently applied to the workings don't seem to have been used by the designers and contractors at the time, it would be quite usual for works like that to be defined by the name of the relevant motorway contract plus chainages and/or coordinates relative to that contract survey control, or simply as a generic name plus OS coordinates.

I'm told there is a paper about this somewhere but I have no idea where to look for it.




I do not believe that anyone would confuse Merstham with Godstone in the construction industry. If anyone did, then they were probably writing from second-hand information, at some "distance" time-wise from the work concerned.

The M25 passed very close to some very minor workings west of Merstham (Gatton), and the M23 passed over the Merstham workings further east, but SEVERAL MILES west of Godstone, where the M25 motorway not only passed well south of the mines, but over totally different geology!

The Godstone workings have never been known "generically" as anything other than the Godstone or Caterham "mines". As for engineering reports of the time, I have inspected several of these in the past - stabilisation plans, borehole logs, and so on, and had any of them used incorrect names, I am sure I would have spotted it!
But, hey, this topic is about Cornwall, n'est-ce pas?

The grout at MERSTHAM under the M23 can be visited and the methods used to fill the workings is easily inspected.

--

Hé ! Ki kapcsolva le a villanyt ?
IP: 94.193.19.239 Edited: 23/10/2012 11:14:43 by Peter Burgess
Dolcoathguy

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Joined: 21/05/2008
Location: Camborne, Cornwall

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Wheal Harriett or Dolcoath
Posted: 22/10/2012 19:06:46
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Someone mentioned to me when they googled the shaft at Dolcoath ave, most info on what was going on seems to be listed on this site!
They were also surprised that there was a forum for "adit enthusiasts"!
Anyhow I think it is a compliment to this site that we provide in depth analyses and discussion on matters not always accurately reported in the media. Thumbs Up

--

Is it safe to come out of the bunker yet?
IP: 194.126.226.123 Edited: 23/10/2012 07:12:34 by Dolcoathguy
Roy Morton

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Joined: 09/10/2007
Location: Redruth Cornwall

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Wheal Harriett or Dolcoath
Posted: 22/10/2012 22:05:55
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When you consider the wide range of expertise on this site it is hardly surprising that the majority of info is to be found here.
The valuable element here is the mixture of experienced amateurs, professionals and semi-professionals, focussed across an expansive range of disciplines.
AditNow is the perfect forum for all to come together and feed one anothers knowledge, and long may it do so Thumbs Up

--

'Bid me discourse, I will enchant thine ear'
IP: 86.152.102.158
pengegon pixie

Joined: 18/10/2012

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Wheal Harriett or Dolcoath
Posted: 23/10/2012 06:47:46
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Looks like a section of the stope is ready to be concreted.The visible part of the stope is about 1200mm wide and very steeply dipping to the south.The sheave wheel will have to be moved to continue excavation. Smile IP: 86.147.244.139
Dolcoathguy

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Joined: 21/05/2008
Location: Camborne, Cornwall

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Wheal Harriett or Dolcoath
Posted: 23/10/2012 07:11:14
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For the Industrial Archeologists in the area, there are some interesting bits of rusty metal in the piles of earth being excavated. The usual modern rubbish, but there is something that looks like a large squashed bucket with rivets. It can be seen partially from the field side of the fence. Hopefully anything really interesting will be kept to one side by those working there , especially if it dates from the 18th Cent.

--

Is it safe to come out of the bunker yet?
IP: 194.126.226.123
Roy Morton

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Joined: 09/10/2007
Location: Redruth Cornwall

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Wheal Harriett or Dolcoath
Posted: 24/10/2012 00:46:32
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Saw the sheave wheel being transported through Tuckingmill today.
That "Rusty bucket with rivets" sounds like a Kibble.....Size?

--

'Bid me discourse, I will enchant thine ear'
IP: 86.152.9.237
Dolcoathguy

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Wheal Harriett or Dolcoath
Posted: 24/10/2012 06:57:13
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As it is rather flattened It looked too thin to be a Kibble, unless really badly corroded??
Maybe 3ft across and 2ft high, but partially buried (and can't get to it)...how big were kibbles in the 18th C? Could be right size for one winched by hand? Will try to get a photo in next few days.

--

Is it safe to come out of the bunker yet?
IP: 194.126.226.123
Knocker

Joined: 17/06/2008

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Wheal Harriett or Dolcoath
Posted: 24/10/2012 07:11:18
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2ft high sounds about right - bear in mind most at that point were winched by "horse engine" and suspended on chain, so the weight would be quite substantial even at that size. If you ever see the picture of one of New Cooks Kitchen Mine shafts being deepened using an air winch at the end of the 19th century -that kibble is tiny. IP: 90.221.39.40
Dolcoathguy

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Joined: 21/05/2008
Location: Camborne, Cornwall

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Wheal Harriett or Dolcoath
Posted: 24/10/2012 08:29:17
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Knocker if you are around in the area, it is along the earth pile by the fence in the Engine House field - maybe you can have a look, as it is partly buried it is hard to be sure what exactly it is, so a second opinion would be good.

--

Is it safe to come out of the bunker yet?
IP: 194.126.226.123
derrickman

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Joined: 18/02/2009

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Wheal Harriett or Dolcoath
Posted: 24/10/2012 09:07:06
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well, quite so; oral evidence years after the event is notoriously variable.

What does get lost or overlooked by the subsequent efforts of historians is what the original narrator understood by the term.

My source for the comment about the grouting at Merstham was a supervisor at Combe Down who had actually worked on the project, which must have been sometime in the mid 1970s? He had no knowledge of the then-unbuilt motorways, referring simply to "some work for Bullivant in the Godstone area, grouting old mines for motorways" which would have been as much information as he would have had at the time.

I read and write quite a lot of site-level technical reports and diary records from various sources, usually for the purpose of producing summaries and over-views of sequences of work involving multiple sub-contractors, and I would always treat such evidence with circumspection, even regarding events which were quite recent.


--

''the stopes soared beyond the range of our caplamps' - David Bick...... How times change .... oh, I don't know, I've still got a lamp like that.
IP: 86.30.241.199
Peter Burgess

Joined: 01/07/2008
Location: Merstham. Or is it Godstone ...... ?

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Wheal Harriett or Dolcoath
Posted: 24/10/2012 09:32:21
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And of course there is nothing wrong with a mere amateur historian making it clear what actually happened, through his own intimate knowledge of an area over several decades. Because, as you imply, people unfamiliar with an area, who may well have been based in a site office at, say, Godstone, would not be too bothered about the finer details of locations etc. where the work actually took place.



--

The most useful idiot you can ever hope to meet...
IP: 94.193.19.239 Edited: 24/10/2012 09:38:06 by Peter Burgess
derrickman

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Wheal Harriett or Dolcoath
Posted: 24/10/2012 10:47:05
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Sometimes it never does become clear to anyone.

I spent a frustrating three months or so at the end of my time with Foraky in 1982 or 83, sorting out and filing records relating to exploratory coring and subsequently, drilling for ground freezing at the various Selby sites, over a fifteen-year period from about 1967 to 1982.

There were gaps in the records, and contradictions, which I had to attempt to resolve by asking people who had been involved. It quickly became clear that people simply didn't have a sufficient recollection of the detail; some people even confused work at Selby with work done on other sites, so that I ended up with a pretty clear idea of rig working times over the period, but considerably less of which rig had been where, with which personnel.

This brings us back to an earlier comment regarding varying perceptions between those involved in the events, and outsiders ... contrary to what people tend to think, construction people tend not to pay a great deal of attention to exactly where they are, or have been, and when. Life's too short.

I've just had an example, visiting Baku again after several years. There are great changes, but from the editing process that goes on all the while I'd updated my mental picture of the place from the various details that come along over time. Of course, that also means that my account of the Baku I knew six or seven years ago is now suspect; but in a context where it is generally understood, because everyone else is doing the same thing, it goes unremarked.



--

''the stopes soared beyond the range of our caplamps' - David Bick...... How times change .... oh, I don't know, I've still got a lamp like that.
IP: 86.30.241.199 Edited: 24/10/2012 10:54:59 by derrickman
The CORMAC Man!

Joined: 16/10/2012

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Wheal Harriett or Dolcoath
Posted: 24/10/2012 17:50:34
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Hi Folks!

The scrap of metal is not a kibble! It is some form of water tank with a heating element. We have managed to reclaim some bits of narrow guage track if anyone has a useful purpose for them? If not they will be recycled.

As for progress we completed a pour today with a total of 28m3 bringing us to the current level that you will see in the photographs. Look out for Gus's prehistoric mate!

The wheal had to go to safe storage to allow sufficient access for our excavator an educated guess of 4t was close with the actual being 4.2t! Thanks to our friends at Macsalvors for their assitance with this!

You will also see some shots taken by our remote camera looking in from the shaft which came out better than anticipated! We also surveyed the inner walls of the existing capped shaft with this equipment by inserting through the vent pipe with the inner walls showing no sign of fracture / collapse.

Photographs can be viewed by clicking the link as i still cannot seem to be able to insert direct!

http://www.aditnow.co.uk/personalalbum/personal-album-12310/

Thanks and regards Big Grin
IP: 193.35.158.39
pengegon pixie

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Wheal Harriett or Dolcoath
Posted: 24/10/2012 20:20:40
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Dydh da CORMAC Man,Meur rasta for the photographs. The dinosaur could be Gomphos elkema an old relation of Gus.The photograph titled 'From within' seems to show that a big rabbit or similar burrowing creature has been digging under the rock pillar,could have been the dinosaur! Sneaky How far do you intend to follow the stoping? IP: 86.147.244.139
Dolcoathguy

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Joined: 21/05/2008
Location: Camborne, Cornwall

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Wheal Harriett or Dolcoath
Posted: 25/10/2012 06:54:54
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Thanks for your investigations / photos CORMAC man!
Somehow I suspected it would be something non mining! (The wars and others took all the interesting scrap). Any News on the depression in the Old Sump Field?

Re - Old tramline, Heartlands seem to collect old bits of mining eqpt or try the NT at East pool or King Edward mine. Hopefully one of them might be interested.

Reading News below, I guess South Crofty could not make
use of the uncovered shaft (too choked and narrow?) as the report suggests activity in the Dolcoath area.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-20054062

--

Is it safe to come out of the bunker yet?
IP: 194.126.226.123 Edited: 25/10/2012 07:02:21 by Dolcoathguy
derrickman

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Wheal Harriett or Dolcoath
Posted: 25/10/2012 08:24:44
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I have no idea what is going on at Crofty at this stage, but paying real wages to preserve real skills gets my vote any day.

--

''the stopes soared beyond the range of our caplamps' - David Bick...... How times change .... oh, I don't know, I've still got a lamp like that.
IP: 86.30.241.199
Knocker

Joined: 17/06/2008

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Wheal Harriett or Dolcoath
Posted: 25/10/2012 09:15:23
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I think thats the view that most people locally are taking. Whether they are producing tin or not is they're business, at the end of the day they are employing nearly 50 people (My brother started their 2 weeks ago) on half decent wages.

The land that the eyesore of a mill sits on now belongs to the council and is due to be demolished in February to make way for the new road and the ground that is destined for the new mill is currently being prepared.

When people see water being pumped out it will bring the chances of a working mine closer to reality (Although at the moment it is a kind of reality).
IP: 90.221.39.40
derrickman

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Wheal Harriett or Dolcoath
Posted: 25/10/2012 14:08:06
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....mining has always been a pretty murky business in some respects. There was always a backdrop of rumours, take-overs and changes when I was in Camborne in the 70s.

--

''the stopes soared beyond the range of our caplamps' - David Bick...... How times change .... oh, I don't know, I've still got a lamp like that.
IP: 86.30.241.199
agricola

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Joined: 28/10/2007
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Wheal Harriett or Dolcoath
Posted: 25/10/2012 14:40:30
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We getting there ..... be mining dreckly !

--

If it can't be grown it has to be mined.
IP: 81.137.244.112
stuey

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Wheal Harriett or Dolcoath
Posted: 25/10/2012 16:15:47
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Are they going to obliterate Maynes Shaft and the shallow adit one next to it? IP: 94.197.190.183
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