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Mine Exploration Forum

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Author Gas Monitors
Down and beyond

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Gas Monitors
Posted: 20/11/2020 16:50:16
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You got it a bit cheaper than me mate !

Have a read of this thread it’s very good !!

https://www.aditnow.co.uk/community/viewtopic.aspx?t=15108

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Oort

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Gas Monitors
Posted: 20/11/2020 18:34:42
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Yeah, but I imagine he stole from his works.

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alex17595

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Gas Monitors
Posted: 30/11/2020 17:00:24
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I got a gasalertmicro 5 in the end, I've had a little play with it and it seem pretty easy to use.

I've noticed on the battery pack it says Alkaline batteries only, is there any issues with using NiMh rechargeable ones?
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Pete K

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Gas Monitors
Posted: 30/11/2020 17:12:09
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The only folk who can give you the definitive answer on that is the manufacturer. Battery type might have something to do with explosive atmosphere ratings or voltage fluctuations damaging sensitive electronics etc..., but we'll all be guessing really. Ask the maker.

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Blober

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Gas Monitors
Posted: 30/11/2020 17:12:12
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I imagine because alkalines spit out 1.5v and NiMh only spit out 1.2v.

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alex17595

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Gas Monitors
Posted: 30/11/2020 17:39:12
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I had a look at the specifications in the manual and the only reference to it says


'Warning: Do not use any other lithium batteries with the
Micro5/PID/IR detectors. Use of any other cell can cause fire
and/or explosion.'


I'm assuming this means it's an explosive issue, there's no mention of voltage in the manual.
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Blober

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Gas Monitors
Posted: 30/11/2020 18:03:33
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If the manufacturer of your safety equipment has said use only alkalines, you should only use alkalines. Thumb Up

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AdM Michael

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Gas Monitors
Posted: 30/11/2020 18:18:11
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It's due to the ATEX-rating. You're also limited to the two alkaline batteries specified in the manual on page 98 depending what temperature code you need to comply with.

You'll find the same with virtually all ATEX-rated equipment which allows the alternative use of 'normal' batteries.
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Down and beyond

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Gas Monitors
Posted: 30/11/2020 19:04:17
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Seems very silly you can change the batteries, you could never change them in a mine for example as unless you carry your bump test kit to re test it before turning it on ! This I s all new to me interesting have never used one with changeable batteries.

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From the land of the pillar and stall
IP: 90.195.122.17 Edited: 30/11/2020 19:05:37 by Down and beyond
AdM Michael

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Gas Monitors
Posted: 30/11/2020 19:25:31
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The requirements for bumptesting depends on the country where you use your gasdetector. BW only specifies that a bump test should be performed regularly but also recommends to bump test the sensors before each day’s use. It's probably more important to check for any automatic fresh air calibration settting if you want to change the batteries or even if you just want to switch the detector of for some time for whatever reason.
You shouldn't have to change the batteries of a Micro5 during a normal shift if you fitted new alkalines or a fully charged battery pack. It's got a runtime of at least 15 h.
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alex17595

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Gas Monitors
Posted: 30/11/2020 21:36:01
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Down and beyond wrote:

Seems very silly you can change the batteries, you could never change them in a mine for example as unless you carry your bump test kit to re test it before turning it on ! This I s all new to me interesting have never used one with changeable batteries.


You are allowed to change the battery pack in hazardous conditions, but no the batteries themselves. I guess it's to do with explosive ratings rather than a calibration issue. I'm never underground for more than a few hours at a time so it shouldn't be an issue if there's enough charge before I start.

I doubt I will ever encounter any explosive gases underground anyway, it will mostly be used for low 02 areas.
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Down and beyond

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Gas Monitors
Posted: 01/12/2020 07:59:04
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alex17595 wrote:

Down and beyond wrote:

Seems very silly you can change the batteries, you could never change them in a mine for example as unless you carry your bump test kit to re test it before turning it on ! This I s all new to me interesting have never used one with changeable batteries.


You are allowed to change the battery pack in hazardous conditions, but no the batteries themselves. I guess it's to do with explosive ratings rather than a calibration issue. I'm never underground for more than a few hours at a time so it shouldn't be an issue if there's enough charge before I start.

I doubt I will ever encounter any explosive gases underground anyway, it will mostly be used for low 02 areas.


Gas detectors require bump testing to check the gasses this is day to day practice this is normally done outside before a shift , I am only speaking on my experience with a Altair 4x if this had interchangeable batteries you would have to carry the bump test inside I guess to re bump test it so you no it’s working correctly again ? I would make sure your batteries at 100% before using and bump test outside follow your instructions and never risk running the batteries low to avoid this or if you are take the bump test with you , gas detectors are only as good as their users . You have to remember even switching a 4x on inside a mine you will never have it’s full potential being used as it’s not calibrated correctly then .


Or as the gentleman from Germany has said does yours have a fresh air automatic setting ?
Stay safe

Tom


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IP: 82.132.229.46 Edited: 01/12/2020 08:08:50 by Down and beyond
sinker

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Gas Monitors
Posted: 01/12/2020 08:28:55
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Down and beyond wrote:



Gas detectors require bump testing to check the gasses this is day to day practice this is normally done outside before a shift , I am only speaking on my experience with a Altair 4x if this had interchangeable batteries you would have to carry the bump test inside I guess to re bump test it so you no it’s working correctly again ?



Bumptesting should, in a work environment, be carried out in accordance with a Risk Assessment carried out for the environment that you are working in and also with reference to the manufacturer's instruction. I apply the same logic to recreational use.
As a "competent person" (there's a nasty little legal term) and as the "Appointed Person" (there's an even worse legal term, note the capitalisation Roll Eyes) and as it's my ass on the line if it all goes Pete Tong then I do it and record it every Monday morning and after any event which I think may have had an effect on the operation of the monitor e.g. submersion in water, caked in mud and washed off, a false alarm or any fault that I had cleared.
If I went down the same dry, clean shaft every day Monday to Friday for three weeks and the monitor didn't get wet/dusty/muddy etc then I would only bump test every Monday morning.

On the subject of batteries, applying the same "workplace" logic to a recreational setting, then if you have to stop to change the batteries there is something wrong with your modus operandi. Get yourself some better batteries, a better monitor or keep out. It's just one more thing that can go wrong. if you are genuinely actually in an environment where you genuinely actually need a gas monitor and not just wearing it to score cool points or to make your trip feel dangerous then stopping to change batteries is just plain ridiculous frankly. You simply are not properly equipped. Cursing



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staffordshirechina

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Gas Monitors
Posted: 01/12/2020 10:22:04
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sinker wrote:




On the subject of batteries, applying the same "workplace" logic to a recreational setting, then if you have to stop to change the batteries there is something wrong with your modus operandi. Get yourself some better batteries, a better monitor or keep out. It's just one more thing that can go wrong. if you are genuinely actually in an environment where you genuinely actually need a gas monitor and not just wearing it to score cool points or to make your trip feel dangerous then stopping to change batteries is just plain ridiculous frankly. You simply are not properly equipped. Cursing



I agree.
A monitor is not like your cap lamp, you don't keep using batteries until they fail, then swap for new.
Unless you are perhaps doing multiple short trips, you should start each trip with a fully charged battery, or new batteries depending on the type used.
You can always use up the discarded part used batteries in your lamp?
Also, a lot of monitors are set to calibrate oxygen on start up from the atmosphere. Once done, you cannot turn it off or change batteries without losing the calibration. The monitor assumes that on starting, whatever o2 it reads must be 20.9%. So if you re-start in bad air you are screwed.
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Down and beyond

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Gas Monitors
Posted: 01/12/2020 10:30:49
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Makes a lot of sense now why we only used Altair 4x in the drains as your constantly laying in pipes fixing leaks there getting soaked day in and out , never really thought about change able batteries in my life as am to use to just sticking it on the charging dock and following are own saftey rules set out by management. They don’t appear to be the best idea I have to admit

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