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Author Oxygen levels
Grout1

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Oxygen levels
Posted: 07/10/2020 16:55:05
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Chris

Be cautious of quoting Oxygen percentage when referring to air at altitude. It is the number of Oxygen molecules per volume that is reduced with the lower pressure rather the percentage mix. It is not a stratification effect. I guess that Hypoxico are quoting a ground level equivalence figure.

The top of Mont Blanc usually gets quoted as half the atmospheric pressure of ground level, so that sort of ties in with their chart.

Of course the reverse is also true of diving where a diver breathing at a depth of 20m (3bar ambient) consumes X3 the molecules of O2 on each breath than when at the surface. Below about 60+m a normal air mix can produce rapid oxygen toxicity.

Alan
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Paul Marvin

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Oxygen levels
Posted: 07/10/2020 17:19:18
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I think the canary was a good method when it keeled over it was time to leave Laugh

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Paul Marvin

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Oxygen levels
Posted: 07/10/2020 17:25:52
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Grout1 wrote:

Chris

Be cautious of quoting Oxygen percentage when referring to air at altitude. It is the number of Oxygen molecules per volume that is reduced with the lower pressure rather the percentage mix. It is not a stratification effect. I guess that Hypoxico are quoting a ground level equivalence figure.

The top of Mont Blanc usually gets quoted as half the atmospheric pressure of ground level, so that sort of ties in with their chart.

Of course the reverse is also true of diving where a diver breathing at a depth of 20m (3bar ambient) consumes X3 the molecules of O2 on each breath than when at the surface. Below about 60+m a normal air mix can produce rapid oxygen toxicity.

Alan




66m is regarded as the max on normal air, working on a PPO2 of 1.6 bar could go on all night on this one, with the diving side of things . Most dive associations go VERY lenient now and work on a PPO2 of 1.4 bar I personally have dived on a PPO2 of over 2 bar on normal breathing air, it affects people different although not recommended .


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IP: 31.185.60.114 Edited: 07/10/2020 17:26:41 by Paul Marvin
Down and beyond

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Oxygen levels
Posted: 07/10/2020 17:29:09
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Paul Marvin wrote:

I think the canary was a good method when it keeled over it was time to leave Laugh



http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/december/30/newsid_2547000/2547587.stm

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Grout1

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Oxygen levels
Posted: 07/10/2020 17:29:22
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Don't do much diving these days and the magic 66m was below my range, but I do remember calculating ppO2 for various Nitrox mixes for 30-40m dives. Mostly nice clear warm water though. IP: 92.24.167.49
staffordshirechina

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Oxygen levels
Posted: 07/10/2020 20:57:04
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Paul Marvin wrote:

I think the canary was a good method when it keeled over it was time to leave Laugh


Canaries were only ever used for detecting carbon monoxide after a fire or explosion. They were never used as general gas monitors, that is just popular myth territory.
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Oxygen levels
Posted: 08/10/2020 08:16:51
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Canaries were only ever used for detecting carbon monoxide after a fire or explosion. They were never used as general gas monitors, that is just popular myth territory.

In iron mines was anything every used to detect co2 in the old Days I have never heard of anything have found candles in them assume there just for light also fire pits to aid the Air circulation.

I still don’t really understand why these are classed as dangerous like coal mines I no you get o2 issues but you can get this with any abandoned mine if circulation is poor ?



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sinker

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Oxygen levels
Posted: 08/10/2020 10:00:50
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Down and beyond wrote:



I still don’t really understand why these are classed as dangerous like coal mines I no you get o2 issues but you can get this with any abandoned mine if circulation is poor ?



Abandoned Ironstone mines dangerous in particular due to oxygen depletion. Caused by oxidisation or the iron content of the ore. Iron turns to iron oxide (rust) and uses up the oxygen from the atmosphere in doing so.



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robnorthwales

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Oxygen levels
Posted: 08/10/2020 17:28:40
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Paul Marvin wrote:


66m is regarded as the max on normal air, working on a PPO2 of 1.6 bar could go on all night on this one, with the diving side of things . Most dive associations go VERY lenient now and work on a PPO2 of 1.4 bar I personally have dived on a PPO2 of over 2 bar on normal breathing air, it affects people different although not recommended .

I'd be out of my head on the nitrogen narcosis well before the oxygen toxicity got me !
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staffordshirechina

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Oxygen levels
Posted: 08/10/2020 19:57:12
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Down and beyond wrote:



In iron mines was anything every used to detect co2 in the old Days I have never heard of anything have found candles in them assume there just for light also fire pits to aid the Air circulation.

I still don’t really understand why these are classed as dangerous like coal mines I no you get o2 issues but you can get this with any abandoned mine if circulation is poor ?


Before the advent of co2 monitors, the way to get readings was rather delayed, you had to pump an air sample into a small cylinder and send it to a lab for analysis. For day to day testing you used your safety lamp to check for oxygen level.
Sounds hard work? It wasn't until the 90's that things started to really change.
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Posted: 08/10/2020 20:04:36
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Well you learn something new everyday that’s for sure I knew they used them in coal mines but not iron makes sense definitely, one day when I have some spare cash would love to learn how to use one and pay for a course

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sinker

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Oxygen levels
Posted: 08/10/2020 23:43:52
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staffordshirechina wrote:



Sounds hard work? It wasn't until the 90's that things started to really change.



I was DEFINITELY still using my lamp in 1998/1999 and probably into 2000. We then moved over to gas monitors. Or "gas detectors" as they were called....and until he retired in 2010 aged 75, Mick Kelly was still referring to them as "gas detestors". Laugh Laugh



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Posted: 09/10/2020 08:26:24
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As clearly a trained person how accurate are they , Do you have to regularly watch the flame while you work , does it just go out or do different things according to what is present ?

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Paul Marvin

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Oxygen levels
Posted: 09/10/2020 08:35:51
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robnorthwales wrote:

Paul Marvin wrote:


66m is regarded as the max on normal air, working on a PPO2 of 1.6 bar could go on all night on this one, with the diving side of things . Most dive associations go VERY lenient now and work on a PPO2 of 1.4 bar I personally have dived on a PPO2 of over 2 bar on normal breathing air, it affects people different although not recommended .

I'd be out of my head on the nitrogen narcosis well before the oxygen toxicity got me !




Just on depth yes but dont forget 02 is extremely deadly when diving if its use at the wrong depth . I lost a friend doing a gas switch at depth and put the 80% reg in his mouth by mistake and it killed him almost instantly .

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sinker

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Posted: 09/10/2020 08:59:32
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Down and beyond wrote:

As clearly a trained person how accurate are they , Do you have to regularly watch the flame while you work , does it just go out or do different things according to what is present ?


Height of flame, colour, cleanliness of combustion etc and also not only understand what it's telling you but also understand what it's NOT telling you too. Even subtle things like ease of relighting. In low oxygen the flame will splutter but still burn up to a point but if you extinguish it and it fails to relight then that gives an indication of the oxygen level.
Any (most) flammable gasses (that you were likely to encounter) would make the flame grow and burn blue. My Wolf lamp has a small measuring scale so that you can read off any increase in flame height.
Lowering the lamp to the floor would check for asphyxiants; the flame would dim or go out. Won't necessarily tell you what the problem is but it's telling you that you DO have a problem.
Subtle and only designed for quite specific conditions.


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robnorthwales

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Oxygen levels
Posted: 09/10/2020 16:36:32
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Paul Marvin wrote:

robnorthwales wrote:

Paul Marvin wrote:


66m is regarded as the max on normal air, working on a PPO2 of 1.6 bar could go on all night on this one, with the diving side of things . Most dive associations go VERY lenient now and work on a PPO2 of 1.4 bar I personally have dived on a PPO2 of over 2 bar on normal breathing air, it affects people different although not recommended .

I'd be out of my head on the nitrogen narcosis well before the oxygen toxicity got me !




Just on depth yes but dont forget 02 is extremely deadly when diving if its use at the wrong depth . I lost a friend doing a gas switch at depth and put the 80% reg in his mouth by mistake and it killed him almost instantly .


I've never gone deep enough to be considering trimix - and yeah, most people don't realise that 'pure' oxygen is actually toxic at 6 metres or so.
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Oxygen levels
Posted: 09/10/2020 21:13:17
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Down and beyond wrote:

As clearly a trained person how accurate are they , Do you have to regularly watch the flame while you work , does it just go out or do different things according to what is present ?


They can be quite accurate BUT it can take a lot of time to get into using one correctly. The coal industry had fabulous training schemes to gradually build your skill levels in such things, plus as an official, you had to re-train every three years and be tested (along with your first aid and hearing).
Sinker will have been trained in such (as was I) but skills fade with time as well as eyesight. For most casual users the critical thing is whether the flame is still alight and/or if it will re-light. For explorers use, finding methane is very unlikely so the need to read flames is a dead skill really.
Couple all that with the problem in obtaining the correct fuel for a lamp (colzalene, although you can use lighter fuel), it is probably better to use your lamp as an ornament and buy a gas monitor!
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Oxygen levels
Posted: 10/10/2020 05:53:36
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Thanks for the replies I would never dare enter a mine that has any risk of the dangers with one would always take at least a trusty 4x .

Was more just a short history lesson I wanted haha the old ways fascinate me I am only 28 when you lot started you got to see all this while I was playing marbles so if I never ask these things would never know Thumbs Up


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Morlock

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Posted: 13/10/2020 06:03:17
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Suitable fuel for re-lighters for ornamental use or CO2 detection.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coleman_fuel

Some of the Naptha based de-greasers also work for demo purposes.
IP: 86.151.156.229 Edited: 13/10/2020 06:04:57 by Morlock
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