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Author Minera, deterioration at Meadow Shaft
simonrail

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Joined: 23/07/2008
Location: Cleveland

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Minera, deterioration at Meadow Shaft
Posted: 29/07/2020 17:52:12
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I think the situation is significantly worse in Cornwall where lots of money was spent conserving remains 20 to 30 years ago which now need some of that work doing again. An engine house near Killifrith comes to mind where it was cleaned and wooden steps put in to access the interior. When I visited 4 years ago the path to it was blocked by rubbish (which I asked the local council to tidy up); the woodwork was all rotten, and the building was hidden by undergrowth.

It appeared to me that it needed a local voluntary group to look after the place.



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Monty Stubble

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Joined: 03/04/2008
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Minera, deterioration at Meadow Shaft
Posted: 30/07/2020 20:26:45
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At the risk of being controversial. Why do we need all these sites?

I have this discussion regularly with people. Britain and Ireland are covered with an incredible amount of heritage sites. We simply can't preserve them all.
I've lived in various mining areas for most of my adult life, all of which were (and are) endlessly fascinating. Some of them, when times were better received vast sums to 'preserve' them. Now that money isn't there and I suspect through a combination of political decisions coupled with the current crisis, the money isn't going to be there for a long time.
When you have places like Historic Royal Palaces nearly going bankrupt and laying off Yeoman Warders, suddenly some mining buildings, no matter how historically significant they might have been are going to be way down the list when it comes to renovation.
No matter how significant a site like Minerva is when, as we currently do, have a massive rise in domestic violence, domestic abuse, suicide and even murder (here I quote from the chief medical officer of an English County) , then Local Authorities have to put their money into this.
Most of us older types have lived through an amazing time of prosperity when there was money to spare for heritage. Now we have to accept those days have gone and are not coming back for a long time.
I don't know what the answer is, I just know we can't have all our heritage sites preserved as they were in the past.

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The finest workers in stone are not copper or steel tools, but the gentle touches of air and water working at their leisure with a liberal allowance of time. Henry David Thoreau
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John Mason

Joined: 22/09/2008

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Minera, deterioration at Meadow Shaft
Posted: 30/07/2020 21:11:12
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Well said, in a sense, and on top of that we need to prepare to mitigate climate chaos - something accurately predicted over 150 years ago, yet a trap into which we are all walking, thanks to those idiots who insist it is all made-up - with Donald Trump at their head now. Hence my initial annoyance at another poster complaining about "green" issues. Anybody doing so will have to have some serious explaining to do within 50 years - IP: 88.105.101.13 Edited: 30/07/2020 22:34:16 by (moderator)
robnorthwales

Joined: 21/05/2008
Location: Denbighshire, North wales

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Minera, deterioration at Meadow Shaft
Posted: 30/07/2020 21:17:05
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Monty Stubble wrote:

At the risk of being controversial. Why do we need all these sites?

I have this discussion regularly with people. Britain and Ireland are covered with an incredible amount of heritage sites. We simply can't preserve them all.
I've lived in various mining areas for most of my adult life, all of which were (and are) endlessly fascinating. Some of them, when times were better received vast sums to 'preserve' them. Now that money isn't there and I suspect through a combination of political decisions coupled with the current crisis, the money isn't going to be there for a long time.
When you have places like Historic Royal Palaces nearly going bankrupt and laying off Yeoman Warders, suddenly some mining buildings, no matter how historically significant they might have been are going to be way down the list when it comes to renovation.
No matter how significant a site like Minerva is when, as we currently do, have a massive rise in domestic violence, domestic abuse, suicide and even murder (here I quote from the chief medical officer of an English County) , then Local Authorities have to put their money into this.
Most of us older types have lived through an amazing time of prosperity when there was money to spare for heritage. Now we have to accept those days have gone and are not coming back for a long time.
I don't know what the answer is, I just know we can't have all our heritage sites preserved as they were in the past.


If that's so, then surely the same case could be made for all historic sites. Whether it be the Tower of London, Conwy Castle, or a mine site like Minera. If you're going to cut funding overall by (for example) 50%, then cut all the sites by 50% - or just cut all the funding by 100%, and be done with it, with no 'favouritism' involved.
Stop playing at 'conservation', and leave it to the real experts (CADW, NT, English Heritage, etc) to decide if a site warrants the outlay or not

The problem to myself (and others) is that quite simply there was never a real business plan put in place for these sites. Next up for Minera will be an inspection, the realisation that the frame is rotten, and demolition of said frame - hopefully the wheel at the top is lowered down intact first - but even if it is, it'll be shoved under a tarpaulin in the council yard for a few years, before going in a skip.
If councils want to promote themselves as the guardians of these things, then they need to ensure they have funding in place to do this sort of work in the long term. Not a "We'll chuck £100k at it today, and worry about maintenance at the time", but actually have a plan, the funding in place, and the commitment to carry it through.

Otherwise, they're charlatans and con artists. Playing at being a regional CADW, but without a clue.
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royfellows

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Minera, deterioration at Meadow Shaft
Posted: 30/07/2020 22:26:05
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Any chance we can leave out the climate politics etc and keep to subject. That is Minera.

For the benefit of those who dont realise it, if someone says something with which you disagree, it is not necessary to take it another step up the ladder within a reply.

If we dont, then the thread will degenerate into a ping pong with protagonists using increasing stronger language - not on aditnow please.

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Coggy

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Joined: 27/12/2008
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Minera, deterioration at Meadow Shaft
Posted: 30/07/2020 22:33:18
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Well said, in a sense, and on top of that we need to prepare to mitigate climate chaos - something accurately predicted over 150 years ago, yet a trap into which we are all walking, thanks to those idiots who insist it is all made-up - with Donald Trump at their head now. Hence my initial annoyance at another poster complaining about "green" issues. Anybody doing so will have to have some serious explaining to do within 50 years - which is probably why the vast majority of climate change deniers are white males >50! I would rather live in a world of 0.5C warming than any amount of cooling. Like in the olde days of them Romans that grew grapes in Yorkshire ! Can you imagine Yorkshire folks eating grapes instead of rhubarb ! Big GrinBig Grin

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robnorthwales

Joined: 21/05/2008
Location: Denbighshire, North wales

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Minera, deterioration at Meadow Shaft
Posted: 30/07/2020 23:54:44
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royfellows wrote:

Any chance we can leave out the climate politics etc and keep to subject. That is Minera.

For the benefit of those who dont realise it, if someone says something with which you disagree, it is not necessary to take it another step up the ladder within a reply.

If we dont, then the thread will degenerate into a ping pong with protagonists using increasing stronger language - not on aditnow please.


Quite right Roy, and I apologise if I also got a bit off-topic there.
I just find it incredibly frustrating that public bodies can find the money to do this sort of thing as what can only be described as 'vanity projects', only to then leave it to rack and ruin.

As to the solution ... I don't know, and don't pretend to know. I am aware that a local wealthy businessman was willing to take on the Meadow shaft building as a residential project some 20-odd years ago, but he's in his 80s and rather frail now.

I do wonder about the state of Nant Mill (Wxm closed it in 2018 or so) and Bersham (previously mentioned) these days. Or King's Mill, on the other side of town. All of those were previously operated by Wxm council as museum / visitor centre facilities.

Wonder what the Hoffman kiln just up the hill from Minera is like these days too ... My pictures for there are nearly 12 years old now
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John Mason

Joined: 22/09/2008

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Minera, deterioration at Meadow Shaft
Posted: 31/07/2020 03:53:14
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royfellows wrote:

Any chance we can leave out the climate politics etc and keep to subject. That is Minera.

For the benefit of those who dont realise it, if someone says something with which you disagree, it is not necessary to take it another step up the ladder within a reply.

If we dont, then the thread will degenerate into a ping pong with protagonists using increasing stronger language - not on aditnow please.


Of course - I am dropping out of this one after this post. What I objected to was the original (and unchallenged by anyone else) vague attack on "greens" being to blame for the issues you raised. I'm afraid my Daily Mail/brexity people warning light tends to come on when people opine in such a way. I shall leave you all to it.
IP: 109.147.41.153 Edited: 31/07/2020 03:55:06 by John Mason
NewStuff

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Minera, deterioration at Meadow Shaft
Posted: 31/07/2020 12:45:02
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John Mason wrote:

Of course - I am dropping out of this one after this post.

You say that, but you proceed to, yet again, put words in my mouth.
John Mason wrote:

What I objected to was the original (and unchallenged by anyone else) vague attack on "greens" being to blame for the issues you raised.

As you evidently have reading comprehension issues, I shall reiterate... I am merely relaying what I was told when I asked the people in the relevant places about lack of upkeep at the site. I'm not sure how I can make that any simpler, or why you chose this particular hill to die on, but you are putting words in my mouth that I do not agree with in any way, shape or form.
John Mason wrote:

I'm afraid my Daily Mail/brexity people warning light tends to come on when people opine in such a way. I shall leave you all to it.

Should you wish to pursue your retarded claims about me liking the daily fail or brexit, I'll happily laugh in your face about how wrong you are, and tell you to **** off with a smile on my face. You've been here long enough to know I play nice on here, but you've crossed a line. Now, I suggest that you actually drop the ******* issue.

Moderation
ALL drop the issue now that you have all had your say.

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IP: 88.105.101.13 Edited: 31/07/2020 13:27:24 by (moderator)
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