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Mine Exploration Forum

Author Mining subsidence visible on LIDAR images?
rikj

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Mining subsidence visible on LIDAR images?
Posted: 17/07/2020 22:52:01
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This link shows LIDAR imagery of an area near Kippax and Garforth in West Yorkshire; both towns with a long history of coal mining. Garforth to the north, Kippax to the east.

https://houseprices.io/lab/lidar/map?ref=SE4018431418

The penny dropped that the patterns visible were subsidence from longwall panel mining. They match up with the plan outlines on the Coal Authority Interactive Map Viewer.

I’ve by no means trawled the whole of the UK for similar images, but locally there don’t seem to be any. Maybe a unique combination of geology, seam thickness and seam depth allows the panels to be so visible?

The Coal Authority Interactive Map Viewer shows 5 sets of plans for the area, no outcrops and no past or probable shallow workings; so deep shaft mining assumed.

If anyone has a mathematical bent then possibly this:

http://www.minesubsidence.com/index_files/files/Intro_Longwall_Mining_and_Subs.pdf

might give a way to calculate the depth of the seam from the surface area of subsidence.

Would be interested to see if there are other instances visible elsewhere.
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christwigg

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Mining subsidence visible on LIDAR images?
Posted: 18/07/2020 13:14:50
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I find http://www.lidarfinder.com is much better because you can switch to the DTM version of the data (which removes the trees and buildings)

I know you can pick out shallow ironstone workings like those near Saltburn in a similar way.

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NewStuff

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Mining subsidence visible on LIDAR images?
Posted: 18/07/2020 14:00:54
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christwigg wrote:

http://www.lidarfinder.com


Just a heads up that this page appears to be entirely non-functional if you block/decline to let it know your current location.

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Searching for the ever elusive Underground Titty Bar. DDDWH CC
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christwigg

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Mining subsidence visible on LIDAR images?
Posted: 18/07/2020 14:11:30
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True, but it's immensely useful to be able to walk across a LiDAR image live. IP: 2.122.111.172
NewStuff

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Mining subsidence visible on LIDAR images?
Posted: 18/07/2020 14:32:07
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christwigg wrote:

True, but it's immensely useful to be able to walk across a LiDAR image live.


Oh, indeed, I've turned up / verified a few things I and others had theories about. Just need time to go find them in person now, and see if they're accessible.

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pwhole

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Mining subsidence visible on LIDAR images?
Posted: 18/07/2020 15:48:54
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I'm finding the lighting model a bit weird on this application, as features I've located on a LIDAR map generated for me are almost invisible on this one.

Anyway, it has reminded me to post that very image. I recently came across what appeared to be some significant excavations in woodland in Gleadless, Sheffield, strategically placed on high ground. They were relatively shallow (2-3m) and bowl-shaped - two large but separated features on the top of a small hill, and the others were a line of 6-7 along the ridge of a southwest-facing escarpment.

The two large ones are at least 10-12m across and may be smaller pits that were later connected, but it's very overgrown. The line of pits is more interesting - these are all elliptical in plan, almost touching each other, and descend down a gentle slope following the escarpment until it gets too steep. It may just be coincidence, but they also trace the line of the outcrop of a known sandstone unit, and are just metres from a main road and housing.

I asked my geologist friend to knock me up a LIDAR image of the area and there they were, clear as anything. My current thinking is they're ancient whitecoal pits as I can't think of an obvious mining use - the coal seams outcrop further east and I don't think there's ironstone here. They could have been dug for clay or maybe quarrying flaggy sandstone for roofing I guess, but the bowl shape makes it very impractical for that and they don't look filled-in. There's also no spoil heaps.

Below is the image with geology overlain, and also a crop of a hi-res scan of the line of holes:



(click image to open full size image in new window)



(click image to open full size image in new window)
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Down and beyond

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Mining subsidence visible on LIDAR images?
Posted: 18/07/2020 16:07:10
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Great link thanks very much have just tried it out on 1 of are local mines it clearly shows up the areas that have had pillar robbing

Arrow points to a old steps entrance that once existed
IP: 78.105.17.88 Edited: 18/07/2020 16:07:56 by Down and beyond
NewStuff

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Mining subsidence visible on LIDAR images?
Posted: 18/07/2020 16:17:25
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pwhole wrote:

I'm finding the lighting model a bit weird on this application, as features I've located on a LIDAR map generated for me are almost invisible on this one.

The link in the original post has the ability to change lighting direction and height. Not sure about the one CT linked, I'm too picky to allow it the permissions it wants.

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pwhole

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Mining subsidence visible on LIDAR images?
Posted: 18/07/2020 16:25:21
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Well I clicked 'Allow' for my location in two different browsers and I was in Northamptonshire in one, and Essex in the other - which will do nicely Wink IP: 81.174.241.13
Down and beyond

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Mining subsidence visible on LIDAR images?
Posted: 18/07/2020 16:44:35
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Northamptonshire that’s me !! IP: 78.105.17.88
AR

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Mining subsidence visible on LIDAR images?
Posted: 18/07/2020 20:59:38
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pwhole wrote:



Anyway, it has reminded me to post that very image. I recently came across what appeared to be some significant excavations in woodland in Gleadless, Sheffield, strategically placed on high ground. They were relatively shallow (2-3m) and bowl-shaped - two large but separated features on the top of a small hill, and the others were a line of 6-7 along the ridge of a southwest-facing escarpment.

The two large ones are at least 10-12m across and may be smaller pits that were later connected, but it's very overgrown. The line of pits is more interesting - these are all elliptical in plan, almost touching each other, and descend down a gentle slope following the escarpment until it gets too steep. It may just be coincidence, but they also trace the line of the outcrop of a known sandstone unit, and are just metres from a main road and housing.

I asked my geologist friend to knock me up a LIDAR image of the area and there they were, clear as anything. My current thinking is they're ancient whitecoal pits as I can't think of an obvious mining use - the coal seams outcrop further east and I don't think there's ironstone here. They could have been dug for clay or maybe quarrying flaggy sandstone for roofing I guess, but the bowl shape makes it very impractical for that and they don't look filled-in. There's also no spoil heaps.


White coal kilns (aka "Q" pits) don't need to be on the top of a scarp as they're for a relatively low-temperature process and don't want a strong draft but there do seem to few other explanations for this location

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Yorkshireman

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Mining subsidence visible on LIDAR images?
Posted: 18/07/2020 21:51:20
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Just an idea: The line of oval depressions looks like a series of catchment ponds for a waterwheel at the bottom of the scarp - similar to many in the Harz mountains of Germany - the so-called Wasserregal. Are there any signs of leats going down the hillside? IP: 87.150.66.154
pwhole

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Mining subsidence visible on LIDAR images?
Posted: 19/07/2020 14:08:17
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To save diverting this thread any further from its original topic I've started up a new one:

https://www.aditnow.co.uk/Community/viewtopic.aspx?t=14978
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ArchAndy

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Mining subsidence visible on LIDAR images?
Posted: 28/07/2020 17:18:54
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That is stunning. I never knew you'd be able to see it in so much detail. IP: 81.140.79.75
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