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Mine Exploration Forum

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Gary

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Joined: 25/05/2009
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Posted: 29/07/2019 14:21:42
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I know this subject has been discussed many times before, here we go againThumbs Up any legal eagles or even barrack room lawyers can say for sure; if the portal to an Adit, and only the portal is on one person's land but the rest is under several other peoples including ours. What are our rights of entry?Crying

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legendrider

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Joined: 13/07/2014
Location: Darlington

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Posted: 29/07/2019 16:13:09
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as far as I understand, zero. If the portal is on someone elses land then they as landowner get to decide who can enter it (or most likely, not)

You could sink a shaft from surface down to the adit but this would need permission from the mineral rights owner as it would involve 'trespass' on their rights.

as a small aside, things like household foundations dont' usually encroach on the MRO's rights, but deeper things like pilings for wind turbines do. The MRO can then demand recompense for the rendering of any mineral unworkable (yes, even boulder clay, shale and other useless overburden)

The MRO cannot prevent you accessing their underground if permission is granted by the landowner, but they have definitely been known in the past to lean heavily on landowners, who are seldom keen to engage in a whose-barrister-has-the-biggest-wig competition

I am not a lawyer but I know a bloke down the pub who says his brother is. mebbe.

MARK



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festina lente IP: 82.25.240.225
The Fresh Prince of Portreath

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Posted: 29/07/2019 16:20:47
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I have a feeling that the MRO in anyone's deeds reserves right to any opening, or to dig whatever they like when and where they like.

The surface owners have little to do with it, if the mineral rights owners access their right to the minerals. It's polite to ask permission though.

You go capping shafts and blocking portals of non-coal mines at your own risk. If you do this and the MRO has a problem with it you may get a bill.

I am aware of a case where a MRO decided to sting a consultancy/landowner for capping a load of shafts recently. It might be more profitable than actually expecting someone to open a mine....

If you were to get permission (Crown RO?) to inspect the area under your house, you could, as an agent of the MRO get access into the workings via the portal.

Personally, I'd break out the camo overalls on a shitty night and get in there.
IP: 194.35.117.245 Edited: 29/07/2019 16:22:45 by The Fresh Prince of Portreath
Gary

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Posted: 29/07/2019 17:06:38
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We tried sinking a winze/sump from a level in our mine only to find some time later that the abandonment plans were not entirely accurate! Still you live and learn never to trust what the Victorian miners said. On another point we have the mineral rights because it is recorded that a Joshua Harris received royalties from the last mining company here.

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royfellows

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Joined: 13/06/2007
Location: Great Wyrley near Walsall

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Posted: 29/07/2019 18:47:43
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No one seems to be answering his exact question.

No you have no legal rights to enter another persons land to access mine workings under yours whether you are owner in fee simple or whatever. This assumes that the other party, ie the one who who owns the entrance, owns soil and minerals.
If not, the mineral owner could delegate permission to you to enter the portal.
Its all very complicated indeed and the best guide is "History and Practice of the Law of Mines and Minerals" by Jean Cantlie Stewart. However some of this is now out of date due to the Town and Country Planning Act 1990, Countess of Lonsdale v Tesco, and Boccardo v Star Energy

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IP: 88.108.12.242 Edited: 29/07/2019 18:48:03 by royfellows
Gary

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Posted: 29/07/2019 19:01:24
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Thanks.its just unfortunate that the landowner with only the tiniest length of Adit has the most important bit. We have gated it now with his permission and are hoping to one day buy this little corner off of him cause it's too nice a place to lose completely.

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royfellows

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Posted: 29/07/2019 20:20:32
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Good luck with it.

It does bring to mind a legal issue of some years ago whereby someone bought the Lordship of a Manor which included a strip of a few yards width along a whole residential road.
Next thing they attempted to charge an annual rent to residents just to get their cars in and out of their own driveways. The law was on the landowners side and this piece of extortion would have succeeded had not the local authority stepped in and compulsory purchased it!

It was well published at the time.

If the landowner in your case is approachable you could offer a modest annual rent for wayleave to the mine entrance. This would not impinge on the landowners rights of ownership or establish any right of way.

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Moorebooks

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Posted: 29/07/2019 21:27:42
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royfellows wrote:

Good luck with it.

It does bring to mind a legal issue of some years ago whereby someone bought the Lordship of a Manor which included a strip of a few yards width along a whole residential road.
Next thing they attempted to charge an annual rent to residents just to get their cars in and out of their own driveways. The law was on the landowners side and this piece of extortion would have succeeded had not the local authority stepped in and compulsory purchased it!

It was well published at the time.

If the landowner in your case is approachable you could offer a modest annual rent for wayleave to the mine entrance. This would not impinge on the landowners rights of ownership or establish any right of way.


Its known as a ransom strip landowners and developers often do this to stop someone making a profit on what they consider to be theirs . I worked for a local authority and we had to buy a metre off land off the developer in order to gain access to a plot earmarked for a new school. A very crafty way of maintaining a financial interest

mike
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The Fresh Prince of Portreath

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Posted: 30/07/2019 09:30:17
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Greedy strips are disgraceful.

However, this is what conveyancing searches are for.
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