Mine exploration, photographs and mining history for mine explorers, industrial archaeologists, researchers and historians Mine explorer and mining history videos on YouTube Connect with other mine explorers on Facebook
Tip: do not include 'mine' or 'quarry', search by name e.g. 'cwmorthin', use 'Sounds like search' if unsure of spelling

Advanced Search
'Sounds like search'
Quick a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z
Tip: narrow down your search by typing more than one word and selecting 'Search for all words' or 'Exact search'

Search for any word
Search for all words
Exact search
Tip: narrow down your search by typing more than one word and selecting 'Search for all words' or 'Exact search'

Search for any word
Search for all words
Exact search

Mine Exploration Forum

Author Gwynfynydd
JohnnearCfon

Avatar of JohnnearCfon

Joined: 22/12/2005
Location: Sir Caernarfon

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Gwynfynydd
Posted: 26/03/2019 22:22:05
Reply |  Quote


(click image to open full size image in new window)

According to the OS map, (if I am looking at it correctly) that track is "Another Route With Public Access"! GunsGuns



(click image to open full size image in new window)

Is that legal?
IP: 86.166.105.149
Morlock

Avatar of Morlock

Joined: 31/07/2008

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Gwynfynydd
Posted: 26/03/2019 23:18:54
Reply |  Quote
That's what the OS key indicates.

https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/docs/legends/50k-raster-legend.pdf
IP: 86.153.161.171
robnorthwales

Joined: 21/05/2008
Location: Denbighshire, North wales

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Gwynfynydd
Posted: 26/03/2019 23:28:26
Reply |  Quote
If you go here, it has the definitive map of public rights of way, as held by the council

https://www.rowmaps.com/showmap.php?place=sh736281&map=OS&lat=52.835550&lon=3.877806&lonew=W

If it's not listed there, that indicates that it is a 'permissive' route is not a right of way, and can be unilaterally withdrawn at any time
IP: 146.200.27.222
Manicminer

Avatar of Manicminer

Joined: 29/04/2007
Location: North Wales

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Gwynfynydd
Posted: 27/03/2019 10:25:55
Reply |  Quote
The road from the top is not a public right of way and the footpath through the yard past the buildings has been diverted above the fenced in area.

--

Gold is where you find it
IP: 109.145.129.184
JohnnearCfon

Avatar of JohnnearCfon

Joined: 22/12/2005
Location: Sir Caernarfon

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Gwynfynydd
Posted: 27/03/2019 11:06:56
Reply |  Quote
The link given by Robnw does confirm what I said regarding the route past Ty Mawr that whilst the sign is correct in stating it is not a public footpath, it is indicated on that map as an ORPA (the red dotted line).

MM, do you know how they manged to divert the footpath round that compound? This would seem in effect to have extinguished a public footpath, not an easy thing to do. Even if they have provided a "permissive footpath". This does not have the same legal protection as a "Public Footpath".
IP: 86.171.202.187
TwllMawr

Avatar of TwllMawr

Joined: 28/11/2014
Location: Snowdonia

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Gwynfynydd
Posted: 27/03/2019 12:49:44
Reply |  Quote
Having queried the Gwynedd CC footpaths team...

The mine compound footpath was diverted because the river had eroded the bank to a metre or so of the building- so was ‘deemed’ dangerous. As for its replacement around the back having only a permissible status an answer wasn’t given at the time. Winners and losers it seems.

The track down from the Bedd Y Coedwr C road is shown as a legal on road cycle route to the forest boundary. The signage and gate is located where it turns towards the old mine, below the Ty Mawr house. There’s nothing I can find which makes that section a legal route beyond that point other than historical use as one. And that claim needs registering.

there’s a good write up by the ramblers association on how to go about claiming a right of way.... https://www.ramblers.org.uk/advice/improve-the-path-network/how-to-claim-an-unrecorded-right-of-way.aspx#groundsforclaim

There’s also a GCC process for claiming a path as a Right of Way
https://www.gwynedd.llyw.cymru/en/Residents/Parking-roads-and-travel/Public-Rights-of-Way/Public-Rights-of-Way.aspx

However, I’m advised- quote...
“There is, however, a large back log of such claims, and it’s unlikely that the officer who deals with these will be able to look at it anytime soon.”

But don’t be put off. If you know of a footpath or track that has historical use but isn’t recorded as a right of way, please register it. There’s a legal cut off date for such claims looming.

--

''''Nitrate of Ammonium: If not too generously applied these explosives make an excellent manure" IP: 78.146.17.55
Manicminer

Avatar of Manicminer

Joined: 29/04/2007
Location: North Wales

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Gwynfynydd
Posted: 27/03/2019 12:51:24
Reply |  Quote
The road down to the house is public as is the track straight on and down to the bridge. The one in the photo is a different one.

The path was moved by the Council after the landowner discussed it with them.

--

Gold is where you find it
IP: 109.145.129.184
TwllMawr

Avatar of TwllMawr

Joined: 28/11/2014
Location: Snowdonia

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Gwynfynydd
Posted: 27/03/2019 15:00:56
Reply |  Quote
Manicminer wrote:

The road down to the house is public as is the track straight on and down to the bridge. The one in the photo is a different one.

The path was moved by the Council after the landowner discussed it with them.


Thanks for that... I was referring to OS25000. To clarify hopefully I've attached the GCC copy received...

The photo shows signage & gate at the junction off the Unclassified N-S county road. The track leading initially NE that twice dissects the incline on the way down and the one most have been walking along unhindered for decades.

As for right of access, "the law assumes that if the public uses a path without interference for some period of time – set by statute at 20 years - then the owner had intended to dedicate it as a right of way"... The Rambling Association referencing Rights of Way: A guide to Law and Practice (otherwise known as 'The Blue Book'), the definitive guide to rights of way law in England and Wales.

I'm told the legal path within the mine compound will officially remain and actually goes behind the building but isn't accessible- not south of the building as was used by everyone.




--

''''Nitrate of Ammonium: If not too generously applied these explosives make an excellent manure" IP: 78.146.17.55
Manicminer

Avatar of Manicminer

Joined: 29/04/2007
Location: North Wales

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Gwynfynydd
Posted: 27/03/2019 16:25:56
Reply |  Quote

In the 1980's and 1990's you would have been challenged if seen during working hours.

The owner before Natural Retreats didn't like people going up and down it either.

--

Gold is where you find it
IP: 109.145.129.184
JohnnearCfon

Avatar of JohnnearCfon

Joined: 22/12/2005
Location: Sir Caernarfon

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Gwynfynydd
Posted: 27/03/2019 22:47:06
Reply |  Quote
Thank you for the clarification and explanations MM and TwllM.

Thumb UpThumb Up
IP: 86.171.202.187
Llanigraham

Joined: 01/01/2017
Location: Llanidloes

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Gwynfynydd
Posted: 28/03/2019 22:08:54
Reply |  Quote
JohnnearCfon wrote:

The link given by Robnw does confirm what I said regarding the route past Ty Mawr that whilst the sign is correct in stating it is not a public footpath, it is indicated on that map as an ORPA (the red dotted line).

MM, do you know how they manged to divert the footpath round that compound? This would seem in effect to have extinguished a public footpath, not an easy thing to do. Even if they have provided a "permissive footpath". This does not have the same legal protection as a "Public Footpath".


An ORPA will not be found on the RoW Definitive Map, but on the List of Streets, held by the CC Highways Dept. Warning, they are not easy to read through!
IP: 143.159.217.187
daveb

Joined: 31/05/2010

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Gwynfynydd
Posted: 07/04/2019 22:07:02
Reply |  Quote
Interesting. I have been using the track which goes up the first part of the old incline to pass below the mine cottage since 2001. In summer 2016 I was walking up there when I met the agent for the landowner driving down in his 4X4. We had a nice chat for about 10 minutes when he told me who he was and that he had just been up to the house. At no point did he infer that this was not a right of way or that i shouldn't be there. IP: 2.101.62.73
Safety LED Miners Caplamps Moore Books: Specialist Books I.A. Recordings: Mining and Industrial History DVDs Starless River - Caving Store Explore a Disused Welsh Slate Mine
Disclaimer: Mine exploring can be quite dangerous, but then again it can be alright, it all depends on the weather. Please read the proper disclaimer.
© 2005 to 2015 AditNow.co.uk
Top of Page