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Mine Exploration Forum

Author Pedantry corner: Festiniog or Ffestiniog?
Vanoord

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Pedantry corner: Festiniog or Ffestiniog?
Posted: 28/10/2018 13:50:06
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Another calendar caption question...

There is reference to Cwmorthin being connected to the Festiniog Railway in 1861.

At that point - as far as I am aware - the Festiniog Railway had just the one 'F'. I *think* that the legal body that is the railway still only has one 'F'.

But the railway has been known as 'Ffestiniog' for ages.

Which spelling should be used for the caption? I'm currently going with 'Festiniog' because that's what it (almost certainly) was in 1861.

Does anyone have any particular objections either way?



The above reminded me of this:

A man goes into an ice cream parlour. He asks for a chocolate cornet.

"I'm sorry, sir," says the ice cream man, "but I'm afraid we're out of chocolate ice cream."

"Oh," says the customer, "In that case I'll have a chocolate cup."

So the ice cream man says, "No, no, sir. You don't understand. We have run out of chocolate."

"Oh," replies the customer. "Then I'll just have a chocolate ice cream."

The man behind the counter looks at the customer and says, "OK... if you take the 'v' out of 'vanilla', what have you got?"

The customer, confused, replies: "anilla?"

"Good," says the ice cream man, "now if you take the 's' out of 'strawberry', what do you have?"

The customer, still confused, replies: "srawberry?".

"Great!" says the ice cream man, "if you take the 'f' out of 'chocolate', what do you have?"

The customer, even more confused now, says: "But there's no 'f' in 'chocolate'!".

"Exactly!" shouts the grinning ice cream man.


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Morlock

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Pedantry corner: Festiniog or Ffestiniog?
Posted: 28/10/2018 15:21:55
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Just an observation.

OS mapping search under "fest" brings up all entries with a double Ff whereas Company House records the railway with a single F.

Always amusing to overhear tourists trying to pronounce Dduallt.Big GrinOff Topic
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Digit

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Pedantry corner: Festiniog or Ffestiniog?
Posted: 28/10/2018 15:44:32
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Vanoord wrote:

Another calendar caption question...

There is reference to Cwmorthin being connected to the Festiniog Railway in 1861.

At that point - as far as I am aware - the Festiniog Railway had just the one 'F'. I *think* that the legal body that is the railway still only has one 'F'.

But the railway has been known as 'Ffestiniog' for ages.

Which spelling should be used for the caption? I'm currently going with 'Festiniog' because that's what it (almost certainly) was in 1861.

Does anyone have any particular objections either way?



There is (or was) a definitive explanation of the spelling changes either on their web site or the WIKI which is linked to it containing the history details of the route etc. Unfortunatly I cannot remember exactly where.

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ChrisJC

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Pedantry corner: Festiniog or Ffestiniog?
Posted: 28/10/2018 15:58:41
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It is my understanding that the act of parliament which set up the Festiniog Railway had one 'F'. So in this case, the correct spelling is with one 'F'.

Chris.
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Digit

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Pedantry corner: Festiniog or Ffestiniog?
Posted: 28/10/2018 16:02:27
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Success on the second attempt, this is what I remembered:-

It is also common (and correct Welsh) that people use the Ffestiniog instead of Festiniog way of spelling. By its Parliamentary Act of 1832, the Railway Company was incorporated using the Anglicised, single F, spelling and ever since its legal entity has been the Festiniog Railway Company.

As a business that operated within a frequently Welsh-speaking community it is hardly surprising that the proper Welsh spelling, the double Ff, sometimes slipped into written records during the old company's days.

During the 1970s - 1980s, in a response to a different cultural climate, the Company investigated the process for altering the legal entity and adopt the double Ff. The excessive cost of a complex process (including a new Act of Parliament) precluded any such action.

During the 1990s, however, a conscious effort was made to promote the use of the double Ff and this form is now used on virtually all paperwork, save for essential legal documents.

The exception to this is the FR Heritage Group, by virtue of its interest in the historical aspects of the railway.


From:-
https://www.festipedia.org.uk/wiki/Ffestiniog_Railway

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Jim MacPherson

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Pedantry corner: Festiniog or Ffestiniog?
Posted: 28/10/2018 16:14:24
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I suspect a true pedant might suggest the railway should therefore be pronounced "Vestiniog", quite how Ff sounds is another matter altogetherShocked

One of the Brecon Beacons can sound quite like school boy humour.

The same problem arises in Scotland and Ireland as the, mainly, English surveyors and cartographers altered local names to something they could understand and spell, mind you it also had an impact in England with Pen Hill and River Avon.

Jim
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legendrider

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Pedantry corner: Festiniog or Ffestiniog?
Posted: 28/10/2018 16:25:28
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How about

"Ffestiniog Railway" - a trading style of Festiniog Railway Ltd.

should stop 'em in their tracks... pun intended Roll Eyes

MARK

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festina lente IP: 82.25.240.225
Peter Burgess

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Pedantry corner: Festiniog or Ffestiniog?
Posted: 28/10/2018 18:10:00
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Ask the railway what they would use and simply go with that. If anyone complains refer them to the railway. IP: 51.6.12.3
AR

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Pedantry corner: Festiniog or Ffestiniog?
Posted: 28/10/2018 20:19:02
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Jim MacPherson wrote:


One of the Brecon Beacons can sound quite like school boy humour.


I presume you're referring to Lord Hereford's Knob, as immortalised in song by Half Man Half Biscuit?

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JohnnearCfon

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Pedantry corner: Festiniog or Ffestiniog?
Posted: 29/10/2018 11:53:45
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I tend to always use the F when referring to the railway, because that is still its correct legal title, but use Ff when referring to Blaenau Ffestiniog etc.

Same thing with Dinorwic/Dinorwig.
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Barney

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Pedantry corner: Festiniog or Ffestiniog?
Posted: 01/11/2018 09:29:32
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So then, this leads onto another debate...
The ever popular admin Vanoord, should this not be Fanoord??
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Roger the Cat

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Pedantry corner: Festiniog or Ffestiniog?
Posted: 01/11/2018 12:32:13
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AR,

Fan y Big, perhaps?
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davel

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Pedantry corner: Festiniog or Ffestiniog?
Posted: 01/11/2018 14:30:14
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Barney wrote:

... Vanoord, should this not be Fanoord??

Surely, it should be Fanwrd. Big Grin

(... and, before anyone else says it, don't call me Shirley!)

Dave
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