Mine exploration, photographs and mining history for mine explorers, industrial archaeologists, researchers and historians Mine explorer and mining history videos on YouTube Connect with other mine explorers on Facebook
Tip: do not include 'mine' or 'quarry', search by name e.g. 'cwmorthin', use 'Sounds like search' if unsure of spelling

Advanced Search
'Sounds like search'
Quick a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z
Tip: narrow down your search by typing more than one word and selecting 'Search for all words' or 'Exact search'

Search for any word
Search for all words
Exact search
Tip: narrow down your search by typing more than one word and selecting 'Search for all words' or 'Exact search'

Search for any word
Search for all words
Exact search

Mine Exploration Forum

Author Housing developments at Wirksworth.
Thrutch

Joined: 16/02/2009

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Housing developments at Wirksworth.
Posted: 04/08/2018 09:17:09
Reply |  Quote
Does anyone know - and I am sure someone on here will - if any mine exploration groups have been involved in the planning of housing developments in Wirksworth? What will be the consequences if these developments go through, apart form the possibility of the odd garden disappearing - I know about Starkholmes and one at Bolehill with a shaft into Meerbrook Sough? News reports state that progress has been slowed by the discovery, on one site, of "seventeen mine shafts that will have to be capped and filled". IP: 81.151.38.134
darkmole

Joined: 14/05/2013

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Housing developments at Wirksworth.
Posted: 04/08/2018 10:54:19
Reply |  Quote
The area was treated quite well by Tarmac when it was their property, but there will bound to be problems.
When the new housing development by the crossroads at Middleton by Wirksworth went ahead lorries bring in PFA nearly every day for 3 months to fill the voids they knew about.
I gather the Wirksworth Mines group have been under this and not yet seen any sign of the pulverised fly ash.
IP: 92.40.129.123
The Fresh Prince of Portreath

Joined: 05/08/2015

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Housing developments at Wirksworth.
Posted: 04/08/2018 16:31:30
Reply |  Quote
These days site investigation and remediation is taken very seriously. It's also a condition of planning and they'll want to see the work has been done prior to sign off.

Just because there are no features visible, doesn't mean that some features have been adequately abandoned (permanently) and some dangers/subsidence risks may remain. The SI will take this into account and where drilling/excavation is done to give inform the assessment, it will also include existing fixed features (if no record if available).

The CA go well over the top with their filling/treatment of shafts, but sometimes they skimp on capping, which is more of a "concrete cover" in a lot of cases. There are a couple of books about the treatment of shafts, including a NCB one. They outline everything from simple fencing, to reinforced cap over a plug and various access/non access designs. Anything other than shafts does get pretty expensive quickly and depending on what the feature is like, treatments can range from mild to very wild.

Outside of coal, local authorities sometimes have their own very dubious ways of treating "workings" and various consultancies have their own (possibly running the gauntlet with risk and the costs of their insurance) strategies of dealing with various scenarios. The upshot is that rather than the risk of subsidence being remediated adequately, someone has produced a report outlining a methodology (sometimes) and has made an effort to record it to a degree which is acceptable to insurers and lenders.

Having done a fair bit of this sort of work myself, I am of the opinion that much of the work/it's creators are on relatively thin ice and don't outline their thinking/working/installation clearly enough to be marked by their peers. This is a problem and perhaps a part of the reason why our insurance premium costs more than most people's cars.

If you're on a Cornwall Council site, you have a reason to doubt the integrity of the work done, because half of it has been lashed up by rushing hillbillies who's work may suggest they do not understand the scope of the problem adequately and have got someone important to sign the work off against their (taxpayer funded) insurance.

If it's a coal authority job, or a big job where a proper engineering firm has been dragged in (with the cost of 2 "0"s on the end of the normal bill), you can almost certainly bet your bottom dollar it would survive a direct hit of a large nuclear bomb.....

Having said, today's ticky-tacky lego estates probably don't need much in the way of consideration of the ground quality.
IP: 89.238.150.5
historytrog

Joined: 02/03/2009

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Housing developments at Wirksworth.
Posted: 07/08/2018 09:50:57
Reply |  Quote
In c1976, I was called in by the developers of a housing site at Steeplegrange by the old quarry. Probably some shafts on the Venture Title there but I could turn up very little from the archives and was not of much use.
In that time, I also visited an old house that stood on an air shaft of Cromford Sough. Its residents, an aged couple, had no idea of this. Then the house was sold in c. 2014 and the new purchaser later found out that it was on a shaft and, not having been notified of this by her solicitors, was talking of starting a legal case.
For my Matlock book research, I visited a new house at Starkholmes that had been built on the wasteheap of a major engine shaft recorded on easily accessible plans. The owner was completely unaware of this and the front of the house had started slipping badly.
I was shocked at the lack of interest by the developers of the Cawdor site in the mining hazards there in c.2000. They appeared to have no idea about Cawdor Engine Shaft, right by the railway, and 300 feet deep and perhaps 15 feet diameter. “Sougher” (the late Margaret Howard) also protested in vain about the risks pose by the mines here. She was particularly knowledgeable, having been a member of Op Mole.
The Dimple Housing Estate at Matlock of c. 1970 vintage also ran into serious problems with the legacy of mining remains. I walked round it in c.2000, interviewing old blokes who were working in their gardens: they are always most likely to be the people with the knowledge of shafts that had opened up.
For obvious reasons, ignorance is bliss for developers.
IP: 62.7.235.210
darkmole

Joined: 14/05/2013

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Housing developments at Wirksworth.
Posted: 07/08/2018 17:00:24
Reply |  Quote
Doug Nash was asked by developers about mines next to the Ecclesbourne railway about 12 years ago.Op mole having been down Meerbrook Engine shaft Doug knew a lot about the site but when asked about a fee for the information, he said no after they wanted a report for free. IP: 94.197.4.182
The Fresh Prince of Portreath

Joined: 05/08/2015

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Housing developments at Wirksworth.
Posted: 07/08/2018 23:14:55
Reply |  Quote
One of the jobs I have on is looking at the footings for 140 houses going in on an "is it, or isn't it" plot. The lenders/insurers want to see paperwork, otherwise they aren't touching it. The amount of risk aversion regarding mining is seriously major. A couple of major screwups have caused a whole swathe of insurers to drop out of the mining subsidence field. It is a really major thing.

I know that along with the CA, a couple of the major search firms are now covering coal and that will be a part of the usual suite of searches applicable to each area. If you're in a mining area, it will be required and it will flag up. The only way you'll avoid it is if you are a cash buyer/developer and then, when you go to sell, it will crop up.

Site investigation is quite a particular thing. I can't comment about coal, because we don't deal with that, but with metalliferous mines, it has a proper methodology which excludes non-intrusive methods, like magic electronics and divining.

If people are cocking up and things are disappearing down holes, it may because of some hole in the planning process. However, as soon as someone wants to insure/borrow against it, it will be dragged into the spotlight. (Assuming we are talking British lenders/insurers).
IP: 89.238.150.2
Safety LED Miners Caplamps Moore Books: Specialist Books I.A. Recordings: Mining and Industrial History DVDs Starless River - Caving Store Explore a Disused Welsh Slate Mine
Disclaimer: Mine exploring can be quite dangerous, but then again it can be alright, it all depends on the weather. Please read the proper disclaimer.
© 2005 to 2015 AditNow.co.uk
Top of Page