Mine exploration, photographs and mining history for mine explorers, industrial archaeologists, researchers and historians Mine explorer and mining history videos on YouTube Connect with other mine explorers on Facebook
Tip: do not include 'mine' or 'quarry', search by name e.g. 'cwmorthin', use 'Sounds like search' if unsure of spelling

Advanced Search
'Sounds like search'
Quick a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z
Tip: narrow down your search by typing more than one word and selecting 'Search for all words' or 'Exact search'

Search for any word
Search for all words
Exact search
Tip: narrow down your search by typing more than one word and selecting 'Search for all words' or 'Exact search'

Search for any word
Search for all words
Exact search

Mine Exploration Forum

Jump to page << < 1 2 3 > >>
Author Communicating in shafts
Tamarmole

Joined: 20/05/2009
Location: Tamar Valley

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Communicating in shafts
Posted: 14/03/2018 08:15:51
Reply |  Quote
inbye wrote:

What about air horns?
I'm thinking, fairly cheap, anyone could use one, no batteries, not affected by water, no fiddly buttons covered in mud etc.
Is there a downside?


The problem (as I see it) with both air horns and whistles is that you can't easily communicate complex messages or have anything approaching a conversation.
IP: 86.136.234.244
towim

Avatar of towim

Joined: 19/10/2008
Location: North Wales

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Communicating in shafts
Posted: 14/03/2018 09:30:11
Reply |  Quote
VHF vs UHF,

As miles knows I personally use UHF kit underground and VHF above ground when at work.
UHF works better underground, simple way to look at is imagine a 4 foot pole held horizontally and try walking around, you tend to hit things and the pole bounces off walls etc. Now if you take a 2 foot pole and walk around you tend to hit less things and get the pole futher without damage. That is essentially how VHF/UHF works, VHF is great for line of site out in the open.

My two pence anyways.Big Grin

--

Ironing 2 miles deep into a system? you obviously dont understand.
IP: 87.224.2.27
Mr.C

Avatar of Mr.C

Joined: 23/03/2008
Location: North Staffordshire

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Communicating in shafts
Posted: 14/03/2018 11:33:24
Reply |  Quote
Tamarmole wrote:

inbye wrote:

What about air horns?
I'm thinking, fairly cheap, anyone could use one, no batteries, not affected by water, no fiddly buttons covered in mud etc.
Is there a downside?


The problem (as I see it) with both air horns and whistles is that you can't easily communicate complex messages or have anything approaching a conversation.

Morse? Smartass

For most underground work you'd only need to learn a few expletives!

--

We inhabit an island made of coal, surrounded by a sea full of fish. How can we go wrong.......
IP: 109.181.79.215 Edited: 14/03/2018 11:37:17 by Mr.C
lozz

Joined: 03/08/2012
Location: Cornwall

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Communicating in shafts
Posted: 14/03/2018 14:36:19
Reply |  Quote
towim wrote:

VHF vs UHF,

As miles knows I personally use UHF kit underground and VHF above ground when at work.
UHF works better underground, simple way to look at is imagine a 4 foot pole held horizontally and try walking around, you tend to hit things and the pole bounces off walls etc. Now if you take a 2 foot pole and walk around you tend to hit less things and get the pole futher without damage. That is essentially how VHF/UHF works, VHF is great for line of site out in the open.

My two pence anyways.Big Grin


Let me think.

Antenna...Omnidirectional...Incidence...Reflection...
Wavelength...Time domain....

Lozz.
IP: 86.132.236.1
towim

Avatar of towim

Joined: 19/10/2008
Location: North Wales

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Communicating in shafts
Posted: 14/03/2018 14:44:06
Reply |  Quote
lozz wrote:

towim wrote:

VHF vs UHF,

As miles knows I personally use UHF kit underground and VHF above ground when at work.
UHF works better underground, simple way to look at is imagine a 4 foot pole held horizontally and try walking around, you tend to hit things and the pole bounces off walls etc. Now if you take a 2 foot pole and walk around you tend to hit less things and get the pole futher without damage. That is essentially how VHF/UHF works, VHF is great for line of site out in the open.

My two pence anyways.Big Grin


Let me think.

Antenna...Omnidirectional...Incidence...Reflection...
Wavelength...Time domain....

Lozz.


I apologise, I should have phrased it better: The Difference between how VHF frequencies like to travel compared to UHF, not antenna use Shocked
The pole I mention is simple to explain how RF can travel using an analogy.

--

Ironing 2 miles deep into a system? you obviously dont understand.
IP: 62.133.4.6
John Lawson

Joined: 09/12/2010
Location: Castle Douglas Dumfries & Galloway

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Communicating in shafts
Posted: 14/03/2018 19:14:09
Reply |  Quote
Robert has told me our walkitalkies, were cheap but unfortunately came from Maplins.
So my advice is, if anyone is interested get yourself down there and hopefully you may get a bargain.
I noticed on Sunday they were offering discounts between 20-50%. On their stock.
IP: 109.146.38.104
Willy Eckerslyke

Avatar of Willy Eckerslyke

Joined: 03/11/2011
Location: Anglesey

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Communicating in shafts
Posted: 16/03/2018 09:25:34
Reply |  Quote
We tried a pair of Binatone 950 walkie-talkies in a slate mine last night. In theory they work line of sight, but actually we found that they performed quite a lot better than that, maintaining a signal for 60m or so, round a few corners. So they could actually be quite useful in shafts.
Big advantage is the price. Secondhand sets (of 2 plus charger) go for £20-£30 on ebay, and sometimes under a tenner if you're lucky.

I borrowed these from work where we use them for student fieldwork. We've found them pretty good for a mile or more out in the open. There the biggest gripe is that the volume control is easily knocked. Walking around with the unit clipped to your belt it's easy to accidentally turn it down too low to hear when you're being called.
IP: 147.143.12.215
sinker

Avatar of sinker

Joined: 13/12/2010
Location: North Wales.

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Communicating in shafts
Posted: 16/03/2018 09:46:07
Reply |  Quote

I have two pairs of these:

https://www.pmctelecom.co.uk/two-way-radios/licensed-radios-long-range/mitex-general-uhf-twin-pack-pk2-two-way-radio?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIgLXq-sPw2QIVcjPTCh3mOASnEAQYASABEgKwCfD_BwE#fo_c=1351&fo_k=13e7e555e9ff0ef31a0a011234bcc8d8&fo_s=gplauk

I bought them about three years ago and are extremely reliable, rugged and waterproof. And you can lock-off the volume control and channel selector. They have voice activation function so are 'hands free' too. They actually work really well underground so I'm not sure why its never occurred to me to bring them. Never needed them I suppose. We can try them out next time I actually make it out on a Thursday night!


--

Ah, well, now, you see.... IP: 82.132.212.232
derrick man

Joined: 02/01/2014

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Communicating in shafts
Posted: 17/03/2018 06:59:56
Reply |  Quote
I’ve used those Mitek ones for communicating at motorcycle race events, very useful. They aren’t the best around but they are good value and have a good range and battery life.
IP: 81.96.123.121
derrick man

Joined: 02/01/2014

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Communicating in shafts
Posted: 17/03/2018 07:01:08
Reply |  Quote
You have a new van? IP: 81.96.123.121
ttxela

Avatar of ttxela

Joined: 04/09/2007
Location: Cambs

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Communicating in shafts
Posted: 17/03/2018 09:43:52
Reply |  Quote
derrick man wrote:

You have a new van?


PM sent Smile
IP: 188.39.178.242
pwhole

Avatar of pwhole

Joined: 22/02/2011
Location: Sheffield and the Peak District

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Communicating in shafts
Posted: 17/03/2018 17:39:51
Reply |  Quote
A group of us did some work in a big shaft last year (90m to the level), with much of the old timbers, pipes and ladders still in there, and we had huge problems communicating beyond 50m depth, even with powerful radios. Beyond 70m it was impossible, which caused some issues when climbing. I don't know exactly what spec they were so can't comment on the power output, but they were given to us by the company, and definitely weren't toys. I think the junk in the shaft was the problem, as it was very large diameter too.

I've often wondered if the tin-can telephone could be 'upgraded', using thin plastic buckets. After all, you have a very tight line to use, and presumably the larger diameter wouldn't affect transmission too much. Trouble is, to avoid splitting the bottom bucket to slip it on the rope, and thereby probably ruining any diaphragm effect, you'd have to abseil down with the bucket already threaded on. Also you'd need some sort of stop to function as the knot, but something like a Shunt or a Basic could be used for that. But if the top-man were able to shout into his bucket, I do think it could work.
IP: 81.174.241.13 Edited: 17/03/2018 17:41:45 by pwhole
Morlock

Avatar of Morlock

Joined: 31/07/2008

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Communicating in shafts
Posted: 17/03/2018 18:41:48
Reply |  Quote
What's the problem with a long hose and two funnels?Big Grin IP: 86.181.83.167
sinker

Avatar of sinker

Joined: 13/12/2010
Location: North Wales.

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Communicating in shafts
Posted: 17/03/2018 18:49:40
Reply |  Quote
Morlock wrote:

What's the problem with a long hose and two funnels?Big Grin


Yeah. two road cones and some 2" wire armoured pump hose! Laugh

--

Ah, well, now, you see.... IP: 109.156.132.112
Morlock

Avatar of Morlock

Joined: 31/07/2008

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Communicating in shafts
Posted: 17/03/2018 19:33:26
Reply |  Quote
pwhole wrote:

A group of us did some work in a big shaft last year (90m to the level), with much of the old timbers, pipes and ladders still in there


Sounds like you have the makings of a 'speaking tube' system already in-situ?

Edit: Is there a continuous pipe top to bottom?
IP: 86.181.83.167 Edited: 17/03/2018 19:35:54 by Morlock
John Lawson

Joined: 09/12/2010
Location: Castle Douglas Dumfries & Galloway

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Communicating in shafts
Posted: 17/03/2018 20:11:06
Reply |  Quote
In the earlier times, Robert & I set up a winch on the Wellhope shaft.
Previous visitors had used a field telephone, but we decided to use walkie-talkies.
We found that in this particulsr shaft they worked well, when we were attached to the wire, but failed pretty badly when the seat and cable were going up it.
We came to the conclusion that the wire itself was acting like an Ariel, and we thought that if we were to have any other problems using w/t’s underground then a wire could be brought down from above just to help make contact.
We never tried this idea, but it is worth trying.
IP: 109.146.38.104
staffordshirechina

Avatar of staffordshirechina

Joined: 15/11/2009
Location: North Staffordshire

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Communicating in shafts
Posted: 17/03/2018 21:20:29
Reply |  Quote
At Snailbeach, the Shropshire Mining Club had threaded a single wire through the stopes right down to the bottom level.
At the surface you attached a CB radio via a croc clip on the aerial to the wire and underground you pulled out 6" of telescopic aerial and placed it against the wire. It worked fine all the way down.
IP: 217.42.238.109
RAMPAGE

Avatar of RAMPAGE

Joined: 01/03/2015
Location: Everywhere

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Communicating in shafts
Posted: 17/03/2018 21:59:11
Reply |  Quote
nice simple solution. They call that "Leaky Feeder" don't they? You can get special cable to do it but I think any cable would work.

If there is already a metal pipe in the shaft (air/rising main etc) it might do it. Usually the antennas on the radios can have the plastic casing pulled off to reveal the metal coil inside.

--

LVRV VOPO VIR CAN VTRI
IP: 87.224.72.55
Roy Morton

Avatar of Roy Morton

Joined: 09/10/2007
Location: Redruth Cornwall

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Communicating in shafts
Posted: 18/03/2018 00:47:34
Reply |  Quote
I remember being amazed on the 380 fm level in South Crofty there was a guy operating the decline conveyor listening to broadcast radio (BBC) on a small transistor radio. He just had it situated near the power feed cable.
I'm guessing that the armoured sheath was acting as an antenna and picking up the signal at surface.
Mind you, the Four Lanes transmitter is within eyesight, so the field strength at Crofty would be pretty high anyway.

A piece of wet string and a crystal earpiece would get you a signal in Four Lanes Laugh

--

"You Chinese think of everything!" "But I''m not Chinese!" "Then you must have forgotten something!"
IP: 81.151.59.99
staffordshirechina

Avatar of staffordshirechina

Joined: 15/11/2009
Location: North Staffordshire

View Profile
View Posts
View Personal Album
View Personal Files
View all Photos
Send Private Message
Communicating in shafts
Posted: 18/03/2018 08:03:59
Reply |  Quote
RAMPAGE wrote:


If there is already a metal pipe in the shaft (air/rising main etc) it might do it. Usually the antennas on the radios can have the plastic casing pulled off to reveal the metal coil inside.


In those days, CB radios had bare telescopic antennas........
IP: 217.42.238.109
Jump to page << < 1 2 3 > >>
Safety LED Miners Caplamps Moore Books: Specialist Books I.A. Recordings: Mining and Industrial History DVDs Starless River - Caving Store Explore a Disused Welsh Slate Mine
Disclaimer: Mine exploring can be quite dangerous, but then again it can be alright, it all depends on the weather. Please read the proper disclaimer.
© 2005 to 2015 AditNow.co.uk
Top of Page