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Mine Exploration Forum

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Author Industrial Relics on Film
Graigfawr

Joined: 04/11/2009

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Industrial Relics on Film
Posted: 12/09/2017 19:29:42
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The fullest account of Atlas Forge that I've seen is J.Brough "Wrought iron: the end of an era at Atlas Forge Bolton", Bolton, 1982, 55pp, which contains numerous stunning colour photos.

W.K.V.Gale featured black and white photos of Atlas Forge in a number of his books on the history of iron and steel making.
IP: 176.27.91.235
rufenig

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Joined: 18/03/2008
Location: Shropshire Hills

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Industrial Relics on Film
Posted: 12/09/2017 20:13:06
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There is a detailed account of the ironworks.
"The construction of the Blists Hill Ironworks by S.B.Smith"
In, "Industrial Archaeology Review Vol III Number2 Spring 1979"
This give details of the building which came from Woolwich Smithery in 1974.
It includes details of the layout and process. It also includes costing proposals.

(Copyright material so can not copy here.)
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Morlock

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Joined: 31/07/2008

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Industrial Relics on Film
Posted: 12/09/2017 21:18:37
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Miles-M wrote:

never see good ones for sale around here, those that do come up are usually motored for 3 phase which I don't have in the workshop. I'd like a rotary converter! Plenty of amps coming in on the single phase.


It's possible to run 3 phase kit from a single phase supply, just needs a few capacitors.
Plenty of info on the web.Smile
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AR

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Joined: 07/11/2007
Location: Knot far from Knotlow in the middle of the Peak District

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Industrial Relics on Film
Posted: 12/09/2017 21:48:50
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Replacing a motor is another option if you can get a solid 3-phase one at a good price. No carrying under one arm though, mine's a small one that I was able to get in the boot of my car (Passat estate) but only by partially dismantling - I can _just_ lift the head unit...

Regarding the rolling mill and wrought iron, it's not true to say that the decline in wrought iron use was down to the introduction of fire-weldable steels. The product of a Bessemer converter can be welded at the hearth, but what has declined significantly is the demand for ironwork that requires fire welding rather than electric i.e. most people will buy the cheaper product from a welder/fabricator who sparks together prefabricated bits, rather than paying the premium for a skilled blacksmith to make something up in the traditional manner. Wrought iron is now mainly used in restoration and repair work rather than creating anew; it is much nicer to fire-weld than mild steel (it's more tolerant of white heat due to being almost carbon-free) but due to its cost, as a working blacksmith you don't tend to use it unless you need to!

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Andy Mears

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Industrial Relics on Film
Posted: 12/09/2017 22:55:41
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The best way to "properly" create 3 phases from a single phase supply is with an inverter. Many of the inverters used for speed control up to a few kilowatts accept a single phase input and produce true 3-phase. The phase shift obtained with a simple capacitor system won't be very successful. Also, the machine will need to originally run at 415v with the windings connected in "star". The 240v 3-phase coming out of the inverter (or capacitors) will require it to be reconnected in "delta". Incidentally this is where people get confused when they see on motor rating plates "240v / 415v" and think it does single and 3 phase. The 240v is also 3-phase. If the machine runs at 415v in delta then you're out of luck.
Regards Andy
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ILT

Joined: 31/07/2016

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Posted: 13/09/2017 12:30:13
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Which camera/lens are you using Miles? IP: 81.101.107.191
Miles-M

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Joined: 01/03/2015
Location: North Wales

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Posted: 14/09/2017 22:04:26
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Morlock wrote:

Miles-M wrote:

never see good ones for sale around here, those that do come up are usually motored for 3 phase which I don't have in the workshop. I'd like a rotary converter! Plenty of amps coming in on the single phase.


It's possible to run 3 phase kit from a single phase supply, just needs a few capacitors.
Plenty of info on the web.Smile


Yeah would make sense, if you can take off two spurs and apply a phase delay of 120 degrees and 240 degrees (whatever that is in milliseconds)

I was wondering about building a rotary converter with an ac motor and three ac alternators all chain linked so the angles can be quite precise. Probably over complex, I guess I could just use a 3ph alternator off an old genny.

I have a 9kw heater in my workshop that was 3ph. Each 3kw element was on each phase so was easy to rewire as parallel but the 415v fan motor was more of a challenge. Actually found a 240v one kicking about that fit fine.

Problem with a 9KW portable heater on single phase is that I needed to use 64 amp plug and socket, which is massive! Warm though Smile

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Miles-M

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Industrial Relics on Film
Posted: 14/09/2017 22:19:01
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ILT wrote:

Which camera/lens are you using Miles?


Well usually when I take photos on film I use my old 1947 German Ziess Ikon Ikonta:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/34/Zeiss_Ikon_Super_Ikonta_530-2.jpg

Got it on eBay for about 30 quid and it's superb.

However the photos I recently uploaded are all done on my much larger and heavier Fuji GSW690II:

http://camerapedia.wikia.com/wiki/Fujica_GW690

It's got no light meter, or anything electric at all. The lens is a fixed 90mm f3.5. Quite a crude and unrefined camera but very solid made and very reliable. Dated 1985 it's quite new too!

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IP: 81.146.44.94 Edited: 14/09/2017 22:24:34 by Miles-M
Blober

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Joined: 16/12/2012
Location: Anglesey

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Posted: 14/09/2017 22:36:34
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A texas leica, very nice. Wouldn't mind one of them myself.

Not sure 1.4kg classifies as heavy! My RB67 must be close to 3kg with lens.

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ILT

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Posted: 14/09/2017 23:50:02
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Miles-M wrote:


Well usually when I take photos on film I use my old 1947 German Ziess Ikon Ikonta:

However the photos I recently uploaded are all done on my much larger and heavier Fuji GSW690II:

It's got no light meter, or anything electric at all. The lens is a fixed 90mm f3.5. Quite a crude and unrefined camera but very solid made and very reliable. Dated 1985 it's quite new too!


Nice. I have a Contax II and Zorki 4K (the latter was my first 35mm camera) amongst others for film.

I've never used medium format and it was that which I was really asking about. Looks interesting and I'll bear those in mind when I get round to getting a medium format camera.

I do have an 1893 Lancaster Instantograph half plate but it's a bit bulky for everyday use (it's one of a pair that belonged to my great grandfather and I've not used it since the 1970s).
IP: 81.101.107.191 Edited: 14/09/2017 23:51:30 by ILT
Willy Eckerslyke

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Joined: 03/11/2011
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Industrial Relics on Film
Posted: 15/09/2017 09:01:53
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Miles-M wrote:


Well usually when I take photos on film I use my old 1947 German Ziess Ikon Ikonta:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/34/Zeiss_Ikon_Super_Ikonta_530-2.jpg

Got it on eBay for about 30 quid and it's superb.


Ooh, I have one of those, it's lovely.
Can you spot it?
http://www.gigapan.com/gigapans/125976

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gNick

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Joined: 19/03/2012
Location: Pity Me, Durham

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Industrial Relics on Film
Posted: 16/09/2017 17:22:15
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Off Topic but I have a 3phase lathe and pillar drill both run off a 0.75kW inverter bought from the imaginatively named Inverter Drive Supermarket (https://inverterdrive.com/) I went for the ABB one which cost about £100 and works beautifully. At some point I'll get round to making a tacho for the lathe and drill but...

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IP: 95.146.45.194
somersetminer

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Joined: 19/05/2012
Location: Bristol

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Posted: 16/09/2017 19:22:35
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Graigfawr wrote:


Ironbridge put up the wrought iron works in the expectation that there would be a small but steady ongoing market that would approximately cover the cost of fuel for the furnaces, enabling periodic demonstration of both puddling and rolling. However, steels began to be produced that were suitable for blacksmiths to hammer-weld, reducing the market for genuine wrought iron, and fuel costs became ever more expensive. So Blists Hill rarely can afford to fire up the puddling furnaces and limit demonstrations to re-rolling large thick pieces of wrought iron scrap into smaller cross section bars as this only requires the reheating / mill furnaces to be heated up. The main source of large cross section wrought iron scrap in recent decades has been enormous chain links from naval dockyards. These are cut into pieces, heated, and rolled down to small cross-section merchant iron.



Having used the re-rolled stuff myself, I found the quality a bit variable, came to the conclusion that you probably can't match new puddled iron.

As far as I know Ironbridge rolling mill hasn't been used for a while now (5 years?), the firm that was having re-rolling work done there has their own smaller mill so I guess there has been no call for large sections lately. The re-heating furnaces are oil fired so getting them going wont be cheap, then theres the engine running the mill and the hammer...

The puddling furnace last ran in the 90's I think, when I visited in 03 I had a chat with one of the guys who organised it and apparently the furnace has to be rebuilt each time, there simply hasn't been funds for this and given that it was maybe 20 years ago now I wonder if the people who know how the process is carried out because they did it for a living are still around...
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