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Mine Exploration Forum

Author New high capacity Li ion
royfellows

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Joined: 13/06/2007
Location: Great Wyrley near Walsall

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New high capacity Li ion
Posted: 02/08/2017 18:39:13
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Sanyo Panasonic have available a genuine 4000 mAh Li Ion cell which they describe as 4250 mAh, actually tested at 4050 by FastTech.

Beware, it is slightly larger than the standard 18650 (18 X 65mm) at 20 X 70 mm therefore its unlikely to fit most torches etc.

I continue to use standard 18650, issues relate to the cases available, the extra length isn't the problem, it the slightly larger diameter. But watch this space as the saying goes.

http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Sanyo%20NCR20700B%204000mAh%20(Red)%20UK.html



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"How people get on with these things as a mobile device I cannot begin to imagine, but it certainly explains a lot about peoples behaviour."
IP: 88.105.106.76 Edited: 02/08/2017 18:42:12 by royfellows
ebgb

Joined: 07/05/2012
Location: weardale

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New high capacity Li ion
Posted: 02/08/2017 18:51:26
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royfellows wrote:

Sanyo Panasonic have available a genuine 4000 mAh Li Ion cell which they describe as 4250 mAh, actually tested at 4050 by FastTech.

Beware, it is slightly larger than the standard 18650 (18 X 65mm) at 20 X 70 mm therefore its unlikely to fit most torches etc.




should it not be called a 20700 then!

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royfellows

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New high capacity Li ion
Posted: 02/08/2017 19:31:52
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Its called the Sanyo NCR20700 so you are correct, and here is the data sheet:
https://www.imrbatteries.com/content/sanyo_ncr20700b.pdf

EDIT
I should have said, sorry. But still easy for people to 'think' they are 18650s and find, "its different, it wont fit"

I am actually experimenting with them, not really much advantage with existing products, but could just be something on the back burner somewhere.
Wink

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"How people get on with these things as a mobile device I cannot begin to imagine, but it certainly explains a lot about peoples behaviour."
IP: 88.105.106.76 Edited: 02/08/2017 19:35:27 by royfellows
NewStuff

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Joined: 26/07/2010
Location: NE Wales

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New high capacity Li ion
Posted: 02/08/2017 19:59:54
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There's also 21700's as well, with ICR chemistry for the really high discharge that bat-cookers can use. Vaping seems to be pushing these into mainstream availability.



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royfellows

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New high capacity Li ion
Posted: 02/08/2017 20:48:01
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I am aware but only use Sanyo Panasonic. The Chinese are producing cells 32650 but doubt the claimed capacities, also almost twice the diameter of an 18650, so may as well just double row and use reputable cells. Of course, Li Ion can be produced in any size and shape.

Interesting comment about the vaping, I actually know what this is now I have looked it up. Not my world but if its pushing technology its good for the rest of us. I always thought electric cars and home power banks were the driving force, pun unintentional.



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The Fresh Prince of Portreath

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New high capacity Li ion
Posted: 02/08/2017 22:14:41
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A fellows vaping apparatus. Can you imagine it!
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pwhole

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New high capacity Li ion
Posted: 02/08/2017 23:05:43
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You'd sit down for a month at least...Wink IP: 81.174.241.13
Vanoord

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Joined: 28/11/2005
Location: North Wales

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New high capacity Li ion
Posted: 03/08/2017 07:10:58
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ebgb wrote:



should it not be called a 20700 then!


Yes, but...

The new size of battery that Tesla is building for their cars is 70mm x 21mm and called 2170 rather than 21700.

Odd that this is so close in size, but not the same - particularly given that Tesla co-developed the 2170 with Panasonic.

The 2170 has a capacity of 5,570mAh to 6,000mAh, apparently! Shocked

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IP: 86.191.214.141 Edited: 03/08/2017 07:12:01 by Vanoord
royfellows

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New high capacity Li ion
Posted: 03/08/2017 08:50:43
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Vanoord wrote:

ebgb wrote:



should it not be called a 20700 then!


Yes, but...

The new size of battery that Tesla is building for their cars is 70mm x 21mm and called 2170 rather than 21700.

Odd that this is so close in size, but not the same - particularly given that Tesla co-developed the 2170 with Panasonic.

The 2170 has a capacity of 5,570mAh to 6,000mAh, apparently! Shocked


I didn't know about this. It clearly demonstrates the need to keep up with new technology as it develops.


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Graigfawr

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New high capacity Li ion
Posted: 03/08/2017 20:34:29
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NewStuff wrote:

There's also 21700's as well, with ICR chemistry for the really high discharge that bat-cookers can use. Vaping seems to be pushing these into mainstream availability.


Interesting news about vaping driving development of certain batteries.

Caving lights have always been far too small a niche market for battery manufacturers to produce dedicated products, so caving lights have always had to use whatever batteries are commercially available.

Remember 4.5 volt flat pack batteries, as used in the original Petzl Zoom and a number of pre-Li-ion caving lights? This battery was mainly produced for cycle lights: its use in walkers' headlights and caving lights was a reaction to its prior availability.

The stainless steel nicad cells (actually nickel-iron but they were always termed nicads) that were, in the early and mid 1980s, used to make high capacity (long lasing, low output) caving lights by dropping them in pairs in parallel into old Oldham and Exide 'R-type' battery cases were ex-MOD tank starting batteries (larger numbers in series). It was mere happenstance that two of their sizes exactly fitted mining battery cases.

Excluding belt-mounted carbide generators, the first lights developed specifically for caving (as opposed to cavers using mining lights), and produced in commercial quantities (as oppose to tiny batches and one-offs) was the lead-acid FX2, developed in about 1982-83. It was the availability of Li-ion batteries, LEDs, etc, that resulted in the later caving light revolution.

And what a revolution it was - after changing to a Fellows light, I could never go back to older lights - they seemed like groping around with a candle in a jam jar in comparison.

So what cavers need is for major mainstream uses for batteries (and LEDs) to continue to drive improvements, resulting in batteries that are, merely coincidentally, of high capacity and useful size for our very niche use. Oh, and for Roy to continue to combine them into superb cost-efficient lights.
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