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Author Henry de Ferrers - medieval Lead Mines
J25GTi

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Henry de Ferrers - medieval Lead Mines
Posted: 20/10/2016 19:14:56
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D.Send wrote:

Hi,
Bere Ferrers had important silver & lead mines which were taken under Royal control. Attempts to reopen them failed when the main lode, which runs under the tamar estuary was flooded by seawater. Bere Alston became an important Borough market and mining town, but mining in medieval times was mainly at Bere Ferrers.
A de Ferrers also controlled derbyshire silver-lead mines, so the family had much influence. More silver had to be imported from Saxony to supply the economy...
Meanwhile the de Ferrière (de Ferrers) family increased its control on Norman iron mining...
Look up 'Henry de Ferrers' on Wikipedia for general information.
D.Send.


Hi D (David?)

I am intrigued, I believe the mines taken over by the crown were Wh Genys (Jenny), Ward mine, Butspill mine/Tamar Valley, all of which are on the bere peninsula, just outside of Bere Alston....

Bere Alston is the major settlement within the parish and manor of Bere Ferrers and is closely associated with the opening up of the mines in the late thirteenth century. Although not mentioned by name until the 1330s, it was probably the site of the Wednesday market granted by charter in 1295.

So although it is in the parish of Bere Ferrers, the mines are actually situated closer to Bere Alston.

I think periods are getting confused, South Tamar wasnt flooded until 1856?

Jamie
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D.Send

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Henry de Ferrers - medieval Lead Mines
Posted: 20/10/2016 20:53:14
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Hi,
Yes, the subject is indeed intriguing, mainly because of the scarcity of mining archives in the medieval period.
The whole peninsula has been studied in great detail by Exeter University, who located very ancient workings at Bere Ferrers.
As a boy, I looked in awe at flooded shafts at Bere Ferrers, and, as a teenage caver, explored some Bere Ferrers adits.
I did mention the more recent Tamar flooding event, just to show that even today the lodes are of some interest.
If I mentioned Bere Ferrers, it was to show the influence the de Ferrers family had in mining areas.
Thankyou for the posting.
D.Send > Descend > Undergound enthusiast!
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D.Send

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Henry de Ferrers - medieval Lead Mines
Posted: 20/10/2016 21:27:56
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Hi again,
Bere Alston may seem more important than Bere ferrers.
However Bere Ferrers Parish has an Archi-Priest, revealing the great importance the parish once had. An Archi-Priest is very close to an Arch-Bishop in the Chuch Hierarchy! It should be remembered that Henry de Ferrers was the third most important landowner in Norman England... with considerable mining experience in Normandy. And the French De Ferrers family remained IronMaster Barons for centuries afterwards.
D.Send.
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Henry de Ferrers - medieval Lead Mines
Posted: 20/10/2016 21:31:13
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Ah yes once you read it aloud it makes sense.... Oops

I dont doubt there are medievil workings all over the bere peninsula, just the relation to the crown is for the two western most lodes at bere alston not bere ferrers.

I dont doubt that shallow deposits were trialled elsewhere on the peninsula, but I would bet they were not successful or partiularly rich as I see no other lodes present in the area?

I have been in a few medievil workings in the area, one as such I can guaruntee no one else got into, an old stope that broke through to surface, i got access just before it was filled....

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Henry de Ferrers - medieval Lead Mines
Posted: 20/10/2016 23:22:25
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D.Send wrote:

Hi,
After 1066, Henry de Ferrers worked an ironstone in Normandy called 'GRISON', for the first time, building churches with it, as well as possibly using it as ore.
It is possibly a word derived from the old english mining word 'GREISEN', from anglo-saxon Greissen > to split.
Greisen also gives english GRIT, GRIST , (Welsh and Breton grist > christ !)
Could this be a term from the Forest of Dean iron mines?
English monks certainly influenced Norman thought. Anyone have any information on this?
D.Send


Geiriadur Prifysgol Cymru (Welsh equivalent of the Oxford English Dictionary) states that Welsh 'Crist' (which mutates to 'Grist' and to 'Christ' in various circumstances) = 'Christ' in English, derives from Latin 'Christus'.

J.Challinor "A Dictionary of Geology", Cardiff: University of Wales Press, 1962, p.96, states: "Greisen. A light-coloured rock composed of quartz and minerals rich in fluorine and lithium (particularly a variety of white mica, topaz, and fluorspar), produced by the pneumatolysis of granite by fluids containing those elements. Hence 'greisening' or 'greisenization'. [German greis, hoary.]"
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Henry de Ferrers - medieval Lead Mines
Posted: 21/10/2016 07:15:19
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Hi,
From various on-line dictionairies we also get :
Greis, Griess, griez, greisen, greissen, grysla, grizzly, grès, grist; (from ancient northern european languages) ;
with the senses of split, grit, gravel, sandstone, all turning around the notion of rocks & crushing, indeed grizzlys are to this day ore grading devices...
Grison is a loose or consolidated iron ore, whose etymology has always been a mystery :
(Greisen is grey quartz often with reddish bands, similar in appearance to Norman iron-bearing sandstones).
A possible explanation?
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Henry de Ferrers - medieval Lead Mines
Posted: 27/10/2016 09:42:34
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Hi,
The Baskervilles were norman vassals of Henry de Ferrers. Robert Baskerville (born 1090), married Agnes Deheubarth (kingdom of most of Wales), where amongst others, there were gold mines.
Does anyone have any further information concerning the Baskervilles and early mining?
The Baskervilles were famous in literature, but the family seat was in the Wye valley...
Henry de Ferrers had interests in many mining areas it seems!
D.Send.
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AR

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Henry de Ferrers - medieval Lead Mines
Posted: 08/12/2016 15:54:11
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Spotted a few De Ferrers mentions in the Hundred Rolls - See p.58/59 in vol 1 (https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Rotuli_Hundredorum_temp_Henr_III_Edw_I.html?id=_BtDAAAAcAAJ&redir_esc=y)

Don't ask me what they mean though, heavily abbreviated Medieval Latin is not something I have much comprehension of!


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Henry de Ferrers - medieval Lead Mines
Posted: 08/12/2016 19:18:40
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Hi AR,

Thanks for the reference.
I have sent the link to a Latin specialist.
Should know what it means soon, but I did notice that the de Ferrers name refers also to Wirksworth... (where there were mines)...

Intriguing.
D.Send.
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AR

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Henry de Ferrers - medieval Lead Mines
Posted: 08/05/2017 10:38:03
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Another one for you, while ploughing through vol.4 of Yeatman's "Feudal History of the County of Derby" (general anaesthetic in paper form...:blinkSmile I came across this: "Wm. Com. de Ferrars granted to Wm de Montjoie, one-third of a lead mine in Winester."
It's hard to establish the exact date from the text as the author was skipping around between a number of sources at this point but it seems to be from a charter dating to some point between Henry 1 and John. I can scan the page and put it on here if you'd like?

I would be interested to see the original latin for this one as this may refer to a smelting bole rather than the actual mine depending on the terminology used. However, if it is indeed a mine then it may be the earliest reference to shareholding in mines in the Peak.

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Henry de Ferrers - medieval Lead Mines
Posted: 08/05/2017 22:18:42
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Hi AR,
Many thanks for the posting.
'Ferrars' would appear to be the 3d or 4th Earl of Derby, but I can find no reference to such a Montjoie living at this time. So a scan of the page would be valuable. Unfortunately, my latinist contact was unable to make head nor tail of your previous latin extract. ( Not standard ecclesiastical latin).
I am in contact with the Derbyshire records office on another quote. Pity I can't make it to Dr. Lynn Willies talk though.
I look forward to hearing of any further developments.
Kind Regards, D.Send.
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Henry de Ferrers - medieval Lead Mines
Posted: 09/05/2017 08:06:57
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Hi again,
Could Wm de Montjoie be a descendant of William de Percy, (died 1098 at Montjoie), Domesday Baron of Topcliffe, Yorks, (swaledale Lead mining) and Dukes of Northumberland... ?
D.Send.
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AR

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Henry de Ferrers - medieval Lead Mines
Posted: 09/05/2017 15:46:16
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OK, I've posted the scan in my files at https://www.aditnow.co.uk/documents/Personal-Album-431/yeatman-extract.pdf with the relevant bit highlighted and looking at it again, it is referenced as coming from a Fine Roll from the reign of King John, so it's early 1200s.

No idea about the descent of the Montjoies but there are several volumes that make up Yeatman's history, some of which I believe are online, and there'll certainly be other De Ferrers-related bits in them

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Henry de Ferrers - medieval Lead Mines
Posted: 09/05/2017 17:53:01
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Thanks very much for this important source reference! Here is another intrigueing indication on the net :

_____________________________________

www.mylearning.org/lead-mining-in-the-yorkshire-dales/p-412
Lead Mining in the Yorkshire Dales.... mines were leased to individuals. Lead was used in warfare, water pipes and glazed windows.


Demand for lead increased following the Norman Conquest through to the medieval period. Land was granted to aristocrats who had supported King William together with important mineral rights. Extraction was recorded by monastic estates who shared in the profits. Much of the Yorkshire Dales National Park was under the control of local monasteries

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Henry de Ferrers - medieval Lead Mines
Posted: 10/05/2017 09:41:16
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It seems there's quite a few of the volumes available electronically, Steve Thompson's just sent me several hundred megabytes of pdfs but I've not yet had chance to look at them. As ever, there'll be a lot of gangue to sift through to find the nuggets of ore....

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