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Author	Lithium Ion Batteries, what cavers need to know.
royfellows Joined: 13/06/2007 Location: Great Wyrley near Walsall View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message	Lithium Ion Batteries, what cavers need to know. Posted: 05/01/2021 17:54:56 Reply \| Quote I have just uploaded this paper which I wrote following a thread on UKC. Due to the design of the site, I have had to tag it to a mine, but here is the link anyway. I hope that its useful. https://www.aditnow.co.uk/documents/AARON-Mine/Lithium-Ion-and-Battery-Safety.pdf -- My avatar is a poor likeness. IP: 88.108.19.71
BertyBasset Joined: 13/12/2007 Location: Caernarfon, North Wales View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message	Lithium Ion Batteries, what cavers need to know. Posted: 05/01/2021 18:54:09 Reply \| Quote Yep, should help me not to burn my shed down. Nice one Roy. IP: 86.162.143.146
SimonRL Joined: 27/11/2005 Location: North Wales View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message	Lithium Ion Batteries, what cavers need to know. Posted: 05/01/2021 19:42:11 Reply \| Quote PDFs not specific to a mine can be uploaded to personal files Roy, just click on 'Personal Files' under 'My AditNow'. -- my orders are to sit here and watch the world go by IP: 46.208.53.129
royfellows Joined: 13/06/2007 Location: Great Wyrley near Walsall View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message	Lithium Ion Batteries, what cavers need to know. Posted: 05/01/2021 19:54:11 Reply \| Quote Ha, I had forgotten that. Just moved it. https://www.aditnow.co.uk/documents/Personal-Album-128/Lithium-Ion-and-Battery-Safety.pdf -- My avatar is a poor likeness. IP: 88.108.19.71
Down and beyond Joined: 16/03/2019 Location: Northamptonshire View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message	Lithium Ion Batteries, what cavers need to know. Posted: 06/01/2021 06:35:52 Reply \| Quote Interesting read has taught me a lot , I shall have to check my book for my battery rating on my wowtac a2s I carry it for emergencies i need to buy a spare battery really I’ll keep it wrapped up in clingfilm in the Darren drum when I do . Thanks Roy -- From the land of the pillar and stall IP: 90.195.122.17
cantclimbtom Joined: 28/09/2020 Location: London View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message	Lithium Ion Batteries, what cavers need to know. Posted: 06/01/2021 10:08:24 Reply \| Quote Thank you. Learned a lot also. Not only for lights. I'm pretty cautious of Li ion (and the danger of whiskers of Li growing like tiny stalactites between electrodes) since the spate of laptop fires some years back and phone fires when the technology was newer. Hope that doesn't become a problem for traction batteries being made for cars these days, that'd be a big fire. Also I know of a story of house fire where someone had forgotten and gone to work leaving some Duracell AA rechargeable unsupervised (so my caution extends to other battery types too). Lithium ion definitely doesn't sound a good place to make cheap shortcuts. Despite cost of brand markup I'm sticking with genuine Makita 18v batteries even though you can get copies for 1/3 the cost -- Expert in incompetent tomfoolery IP: 86.26.204.247
lozz Joined: 03/08/2012 Location: Cornwall View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message	Lithium Ion Batteries, what cavers need to know. Posted: 06/01/2021 11:05:46 Reply \| Quote cantclimbtom wrote: I'm pretty cautious of Li ion (and the danger of whiskers of Li growing like tiny stalactites between electrodes) Electrically conductive "whiskers" aren't limited to Li either, tin whiskers were (and maybe still are) a major culprit in the electronics industry, one well noted problem was the growth of these whiskers inside transistors of the germanium type, most commonly shorting one of the transistors internal connections to the metal casing of the transistor which in some circuits was connected to signal ground, the net result was no workie, some of these transistors (small signal radio frequency types) had a circuit ground connection to the metal case (the screen connection) a trick with those types was to cut the transistors screen lead to resume service back to normal, with the small power types the transistors case was often fixed to a heat sink the heatsink in most cases being connected to circuit ground...same result no workie. I often wonder if some of the tin I mined ended up in a piece of electronics I was fixing later.... Lozz. IP: 109.155.132.243
cantclimbtom Joined: 28/09/2020 Location: London View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message	Lithium Ion Batteries, what cavers need to know. Posted: 06/01/2021 16:28:03 Reply \| Quote "tin whiskers" sound like the name of a band! -- Expert in incompetent tomfoolery IP: 86.26.204.247
Wormster Joined: 15/08/2006 Location: Top of the Mendip Hills View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message	Lithium Ion Batteries, what cavers need to know. Posted: 07/01/2021 11:38:57 Reply \| Quote Roy, Having checked with a few of our battery experts I notice that when you are talking about cell identification: Sanyo NCR18650Ga you state it has "Nickel Cobalt" chemistry. Those prefixes are a manufacturer in house code and could mean anything, the cell chemistry will be lithium ion of some form. -- Better to regret something you have done - than to regret something you have not done. IP: 213.205.198.21
royfellows Joined: 13/06/2007 Location: Great Wyrley near Walsall View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message	Lithium Ion Batteries, what cavers need to know. Posted: 07/01/2021 13:43:07 Reply \| Quote NCR = NCA (LiNiCoAlO2), obviously all Lithium Ion, that's what the papers about. Bit short of time now, but turned this up quickly: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fYjDxxCJXfm2wdpGWCaOUGq8V8TOEgsnplHQa4YQpRQ/htmlview -- My avatar is a poor likeness. IP: 88.108.19.71
lozz Joined: 03/08/2012 Location: Cornwall View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message	Lithium Ion Batteries, what cavers need to know. Posted: 07/01/2021 13:47:03 Reply \| Quote Experts.....Know more and more about less and less until eventually they know all there is to know about f**ck all. Lozz. IP: 109.155.132.243
Wormster Joined: 15/08/2006 Location: Top of the Mendip Hills View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message	Lithium Ion Batteries, what cavers need to know. Posted: 07/01/2021 16:22:43 Reply \| Quote lozz wrote: Experts.....Know more and more about less and less until eventually they know all there is to know about f**ck all. Lozz. HMMM some of experts are down to the molicule level when it comes to cell chemistry!!!! -- Better to regret something you have done - than to regret something you have not done. IP: 84.68.17.185
Wormster Joined: 15/08/2006 Location: Top of the Mendip Hills View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message	Lithium Ion Batteries, what cavers need to know. Posted: 07/01/2021 16:30:24 Reply \| Quote Here's what's insde an average 18650 cell, snapped off the nitice board at work....... -- Better to regret something you have done - than to regret something you have not done. IP: 84.68.17.185
royfellows Joined: 13/06/2007 Location: Great Wyrley near Walsall View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message	Lithium Ion Batteries, what cavers need to know. Posted: 07/01/2021 16:54:13 Reply \| Quote In my paper I have only considered quality brands, indeed Sanyo - Panasonic are the OEM manufacturers of most of these cells. I have not even considered such as Zipfire, Taserfire, or similar rubbish. Obviously, such outfits, wont call them "manufacturers", they probably are recycling used or OOD laptop cells anyway. They would indeed call their 'products' anything, and while they are on for good measure, rate them at anything. 10,000 mAh, no problem. How much would you like it to be? Obviously what I have written above is somewhat tongue in cheek, but do wonder if I should have included some warning about this stuff? -- My avatar is a poor likeness. IP: 88.108.19.71
lozz Joined: 03/08/2012 Location: Cornwall View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message	Lithium Ion Batteries, what cavers need to know. Posted: 07/01/2021 17:04:38 Reply \| Quote Wormster wrote: lozz wrote: Experts.....Know more and more about less and less until eventually they know all there is to know about f**ck all. Lozz. HMMM some of experts are down to the molicule level when it comes to cell chemistry!!!! Molecule would make more sense.... Lozz. IP: 109.155.132.243
TheBogieman Joined: 12/02/2013 Location: Mold, NE Wales View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message	Lithium Ion Batteries, what cavers need to know. Posted: 07/01/2021 17:22:07 Reply \| Quote Excellent paper there, Roy. Very good, useful information... Thank you! -- Explorans ad inferos IP: 146.198.193.59
royfellows Joined: 13/06/2007 Location: Great Wyrley near Walsall View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message	Lithium Ion Batteries, what cavers need to know. Posted: 07/01/2021 17:34:01 Reply \| Quote Thanks for kind remarks. I should say that it was peer reviewed, at what I would describe as "a high level". -- My avatar is a poor likeness. IP: 88.108.19.71
lozz Joined: 03/08/2012 Location: Cornwall View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message	Lithium Ion Batteries, what cavers need to know. Posted: 07/01/2021 17:48:31 Reply \| Quote royfellows wrote: Thanks for kind remarks. I should say that it was peer reviewed, at what I would describe as "a high level". They missed the + live then. Lozz. IP: 109.155.132.243
royfellows Joined: 13/06/2007 Location: Great Wyrley near Walsall View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message	Lithium Ion Batteries, what cavers need to know. Posted: 07/01/2021 18:39:15 Reply \| Quote lozz wrote: royfellows wrote: Thanks for kind remarks. I should say that it was peer reviewed, at what I would describe as "a high level". They missed the + live then. Lozz. High (+) Never mind. -- My avatar is a poor likeness. IP: 88.108.19.71
cantclimbtom Joined: 28/09/2020 Location: London View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message	Lithium Ion Batteries, what cavers need to know. Posted: 21/01/2021 20:52:54 Reply \| Quote Not sure if this tickles anyone's humour, but it made me chuckle. A cheap and poor quality Lithium battery brand with an all too honest name?? https://www.ultrafire.com/Batteries-c854 -- Expert in incompetent tomfoolery IP: 108.162.237.15

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