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Mine Exploration Forum

Author Sir Francis Level, query
christwigg

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Joined: 20/02/2008
Location: Cleveland / North Yorkshire

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Sir Francis Level, query
Posted: 30/04/2019 11:47:07
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I'm writing a little article about Sir Francis for a local society.
There's an often reproduced image from Hardys 'Hidden Side of Swaledale'



It shows a level going off at the very bottom of the sump, but am I right in thinking that's an error ?

I've read the PDHMS article and Mike Gills book and I think the lowest level worked is the Tiplady Drift mid-way down. The section plan tends to agree.



Does anyone think otherwise before I chop it off my diagram ?
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PeteJ

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Joined: 12/05/2008
Location: Frosterley, Durham

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Sir Francis Level, query
Posted: 30/04/2019 15:57:01
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A survey was published in Cave Science some years ago. Can't remember whether it included a shaft section. IP: 87.115.69.108
John Lawson

Joined: 09/12/2010
Location: Castle Douglas Dumfries & Galloway

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Sir Francis Level, query
Posted: 30/04/2019 20:30:33
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Hi Peter and Chris,
Have looked st the Cave Science article by Peter Crabtree et al and I can state emphatically that there is no section of the sump shown there?
Interestingly he refers to a lower level being worked by the A.D. company for a few months prior to closure.
My guess is that Mr Hardy May have access to the same written information that Peter had hence his inclusion of the lower level. Clearly it was pretty speculative whilst the Tiplady drift was connected via rises to the Sir George Level.
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PeteJ

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Sir Francis Level, query
Posted: 30/04/2019 20:44:28
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christwigg wrote:

I'm writing a little article about Sir Francis for a local society.
There's an often reproduced image from Hardys 'Hidden Side of Swaledale'



It shows a level going off at the very bottom of the sump, but am I right in thinking that's an error ?

I've read the PDHMS article and Mike Gills book and I think the lowest level worked is the Tiplady Drift mid-way down. The section plan tends to agree.



Does anyone think otherwise before I chop it off my diagram ?


Is the section on graph paper from BGS? It looks like a Dunham drawing.
IP: 87.115.69.108
christwigg

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Sir Francis Level, query
Posted: 30/04/2019 20:44:32
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Yes, the graph paper section is Dunham from the BGS and doesn't show anything at the bottom of the Engine Sump.

There is reference in Mike Gills book of an attempt to revive the pumping engine and extend the Engine Sump during late 1889-early 1891.

It talks of 6 men being in during in November 1890 to prove the vein, but the pump failing (for good) by January 1891.

Perhaps they did some preparatory work, but I can't imagine they got very far (not to the extent of the Hardy diagram, even if it is only meant to be representation)





IP: 2.122.103.56 Edited: 30/04/2019 20:46:02 by christwigg
legendrider

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Sir Francis Level, query
Posted: 01/05/2019 07:40:59
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in 1985 I dived the shaft to 33 metres without reaching bottom. Sadly the only thing I could see for definite was my depth gauge. Ugh!

MARK

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festina lente IP: 82.25.240.225
christwigg

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Sir Francis Level, query
Posted: 01/05/2019 07:45:39
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Amazing, you can't have been far off the bottom if you got to 33m IP: 2.223.118.225 Edited: 01/05/2019 08:30:35 by christwigg
Big-G

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Sir Francis Level, query
Posted: 01/05/2019 08:25:32
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legendrider wrote:

in 1985 I dived the shaft to 33 metres without reaching bottom. Sadly the only thing I could see for definite was my depth gauge. Ugh!

MARK


Wow.......I've often wondered if anyone had dived that shaft, or would do so in the future, is it documented anywhere ?? I'd love to hear more about it Smile

With today's technology, I should be pretty straight forward to put a camera down there ??
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legendrider

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Sir Francis Level, query
Posted: 01/05/2019 15:17:56
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It was a scheme we cooked up in York Uni Sub-Aqua Club, following a long weekend wreck-diving off Oban. This was because we'd be a bit more N2-absorption tolerant as the site is deep, cold and at altitude! Oh, and there was a foot of snow on the ground just to make it interesting!

Myself and a guy called Steve Kemp who was from Ipswich I think, kitted up and together went hand-over-hand down the winding rope till we reached 33m at which point we both gave the 'ascend' signal owing to the atrocious viz, stirred up as we made our descent. At that depth it would pretty much have been a bounce-dive anyway to avoid decompression stops. And at altitude we were technically off the tables, so definitely playing with feathers!

I must record my profound thanks to a couple of York Uni guys and gals whose names escape me now, for helping to carry the tanks, weightbelts, BCs and of course, bait!

Funnily enough a few years later I was at the bar in the pub in Gunnerside - it was when Hardy's book was first on sale as they were flogging copies - I ran into a local who also claimed to have dived down, and even penetrated Tiplady Drift. He did not mention a level at the shaft foot as far as I remember, but he may well have made accessing the Drift the sole dive mission.

The daft things we do in our youth!!! Innocent

MARK

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festina lente IP: 82.25.240.225
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Sir Francis Level, query
Posted: 01/05/2019 17:30:45
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legendrider wrote:

It was a scheme we cooked up in York Uni Sub-Aqua Club, following a long weekend wreck-diving off Oban. This was because we'd be a bit more N2-absorption tolerant as the site is deep, cold and at altitude! Oh, and there was a foot of snow on the ground just to make it interesting!

Myself and a guy called Steve Kemp who was from Ipswich I think, kitted up and together went hand-over-hand down the winding rope till we reached 33m at which point we both gave the 'ascend' signal owing to the atrocious viz, stirred up as we made our descent. At that depth it would pretty much have been a bounce-dive anyway to avoid decompression stops. And at altitude we were technically off the tables, so definitely playing with feathers!

I must record my profound thanks to a couple of York Uni guys and gals whose names escape me now, for helping to carry the tanks, weightbelts, BCs and of course, bait!

Funnily enough a few years later I was at the bar in the pub in Gunnerside - it was when Hardy's book was first on sale as they were flogging copies - I ran into a local who also claimed to have dived down, and even penetrated Tiplady Drift. He did not mention a level at the shaft foot as far as I remember, but he may well have made accessing the Drift the sole dive mission.

The daft things we do in our youth!!! Innocent

MARK



Good effort mate !! Wink
IP: 82.0.21.170
legendrider

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Sir Francis Level, query
Posted: 03/05/2019 06:47:25
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Theres a possibility that our go-to tech guy might be able to borrow a device known to us as the 'Idiot-Cam' which we have used successfully to probe flooded stopes, albeit not to that depth yet but dont see a problem.

I'll keep you posted!

MARK




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festina lente IP: 82.25.240.225
John Lawson

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Sir Francis Level, query
Posted: 05/05/2019 22:12:42
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Hi Mark, excellent work you did in Sir Francis.
Chris as you state, Mr Hardy’s plan is a little wishful, although all the evidence suggests that the bottom level was at least attempted, but clearly did not get very far.
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moorland

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Sir Francis Level, query
Posted: 05/05/2019 22:21:51
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Hi
Well im that bloke you met in the bar,
Two of us dived the shaft onto tiplady's drift we only did it twice the vis was rubbish and quite a lot of debris in the shaft bottom trevor who was the other diver went into the drift for about 60 feet or so to a forehead he thought it was a forehead as he was navigating by touch.from memory depth is about 90/100 foot.
must have been bloody mad.

moorland.Laugh
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legendrider

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Sir Francis Level, query
Posted: 06/05/2019 09:48:53
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moorland wrote:

Hi
Well im that bloke you met in the bar,

moorland.Laugh


Well we must be members of a VERY small, exclusive club, wonder if Paul Marvin has joined yet??! Thumbs Up

Completely barking mad, of course, although our plan was strictly no-entry into any drifts, considering it an open-water dive with (somewhat) limited access, rather than a cave-dive per se.

Good days... MARK





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festina lente IP: 82.25.240.225
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