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Mine Exploration Forum

Author Masson Video
Paul Marvin

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Joined: 29/10/2012
Location: Derbyshire

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Masson Video
Posted: 02/12/2018 16:51:52
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https://youtu.be/QXt0Gv1o8ns


This is a great trip would be a pity if we lost it, got some old stuff together and put this together for you all

Enjoy Guys !

--

"I Dont Know Where I am Going, But When I Get There I will Know Where I am"
IP: 31.185.60.9
Pete K

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Joined: 08/02/2009
Location: The Peak District or Snowdonia

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Masson Video
Posted: 08/02/2019 11:44:58
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I have posted a comment on one of the YouTube videos but I'll post it here too as I'm not now sure the YouTube channel and yourself are the same person. This relates to Giant's Hole, but is just as valid for Masson, to which access hangs by a thread right now. As a community, we need to be very careful about identifying sensitive sites online.

"Any chance you'd consider not naming some sites in your vids? The ones with no gates are very vulnerable to visits by people who don't have the best interest of the cave in mind. This one in particular has seen a plague of dope smoking idiots all last summer attracted by SM and the fact some fool had put it on Google Maps. DCA managed to get the marker taken down but we're still dealing with the consequences of it. Naming sites with gates probably does not cause a problem, but there are real issues cropping up with open sites and easy access to info on Social Media. I don't think the removal of site names would detract from your films, which are great. Pete (Officer of the Derbyshire Caving Association)."

It's nothing personal but DCA have had to deal with a lot of damage and littering recently from groups and individuals who have found the details for these places on YouTube or FB groups and the like. Removing the names for videos sensitive sites, or sites that are not locked, will not detract from your films, but will help to keep them less public. It's not a new problem, but is certainly a growing one.

--

Spending far too much time at meetings for my liking.
IP: 95.146.23.88
Paul Marvin

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Joined: 29/10/2012
Location: Derbyshire

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Masson Video
Posted: 08/02/2019 18:42:56
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Pete I dont think our videos are contributing to anything only a little bit of enjoyment for people to view that are interested in caving/mine exploration ,diving and cave diving , what would be the point of posting a video without a name on it. I dont think your average smack head is looking at cave/dive videos on Youtube as a place to go and get high, and and we dont do social media. All this info is easily obtainable via the internet. There are lots of forums and blogs including Aditnow that give names and details ect and even coordinates as where to find these places .

The reason why we dont do clubs is because of the politics and bickering amongst members and although you say its not personal, you seem to be putting your two penneth in a little bit to much on my posts recently saying what we should and shouldn't be doing, especially on a public viewing platform. Why didn't you send me a PM instead of puffing your chest up on a public platform and brandishing your club job title for all to see . Have you contacted all the other people on Youtube and asked them to alter there videos ?

As for the Youtube account it is my friends account who kindly posts our videos for me its not a pseudonym account.

--

"I Dont Know Where I am Going, But When I Get There I will Know Where I am"
IP: 146.199.74.75
Pete K

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Joined: 08/02/2009
Location: The Peak District or Snowdonia

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Masson Video
Posted: 08/02/2019 21:06:46
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Fair enough. Politics has nothing to do with it. It was only a suggestion and you're clearly taking it personally, I'll leave it.


--

Spending far too much time at meetings for my liking.
IP: 95.146.23.88
Pete K

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Joined: 08/02/2009
Location: The Peak District or Snowdonia

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Masson Video
Posted: 08/02/2019 21:10:08
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Paul Marvin wrote:

brandishing your club job title for all to see

And I did that to hopefully show that it was a considered opinion of someone with knowledge of these things, not as a way of showing any authority or one-upmanship. Although I totally appreciate how that can have been interpreted as such.

--

Spending far too much time at meetings for my liking.
IP: 95.146.23.88
ttxela

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Joined: 04/09/2007
Location: Cambs

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Masson Video
Posted: 09/02/2019 08:52:06
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I think its a difficult line. I post videos myself and after a misunderstanding a couple of years back am much more careful now.

The videos are great. I think on the positive side if a wider audience aren't aware of the heritage, wonder and beauty in old mine workings they won't get the value assigned to them when they come under threat or need preservation in some way.

On the other hand some of the sites with easy access do suffer from visitors who do not share the same philosophies on respecting them as we do perhaps. It seems to me that this has always gone on to some extent with or without information online.

It also strikes me that information on accessing these sites is freely available in the form of other websites, guidebooks etc.

For my part I decided a while ago that I wouldn't name sites of show entrances on any of my videos but would continue to make and publish them. This seems to me the best way to continue to try and promote the appreciation of these sites whilst tying to avoid the negative side.

IP: 86.133.68.255
Pete K

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Joined: 08/02/2009
Location: The Peak District or Snowdonia

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Masson Video
Posted: 09/02/2019 09:42:36
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I totally agree with that. There are hundreds of sources of info out there and YouTube is only a small part of that. Thing with YT and FB is that the information can be stumbled on, where sources like AN or guidebooks require an investment in time. I think that these videos are great and do show a side of what we do that the regular media rarely does, and that is a valuable thing for cavers.
I have a personal rule, which I have no doubt broken too if you trawl back far enough on my social media; if the site is fragile, access is dodgy or the place is wide open and 'at risk', then I won't name the site.
IMO, people should carry on making videos and taking pictures to express themselves, make art or show the world the wonders of these places, but we should consider if the naming of the site is really needed or wise.

--

Spending far too much time at meetings for my liking.
IP: 95.146.23.88
NewStuff

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Joined: 26/07/2010
Location: NE Wales

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Masson Video
Posted: 09/02/2019 10:59:14
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Being someone who also doesn't do clubs, politics, or other such stuff, and is well known for being "Vocal" about access matters.

Pete has an excellent point. I didn't read his post as chest puffing, but concern. Some sites are not named for obvious reasons, this is just one of those. It's nothing new, it's not restricting access.

Text is a hard medium to correctly Interpret the tone something was written in.

--

Searching for the ever elusive Underground Titty Bar. DDDWH CC
IP: 88.97.32.83
royfellows

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Joined: 13/06/2007
Location: Great Wyrley near Walsall

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Masson Video
Posted: 09/02/2019 11:01:02
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I think that in some respects mine exploration still needs to gain ground to be universally regarded as a legitimate leisure activity.

I also see the best way to progress is to take ownership of more sites into the mining community, then a place can be properly managed and it made clear to visitors that the place is private property and not a free for all.

--

Looking forward to NAMHO 2019. www.cambrianmines.co.uk
IP: 92.23.160.152
Barney

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Joined: 01/12/2005
Location: Warwickshire

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Masson Video
Posted: 09/02/2019 11:22:36
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What's going on at Giants hole Pete?
I don't think the entrance series can be damaged much more. Whoever it was that tried to create a tourist attraction years ago did a lot of damage to the entrance series up to the original sump 1. Then of course there is a natural stop point for idiots at Garlands.
Would it not be a simple case of locking the gate with a combination lock or something? If the idiots can't park there i'm sure they wouldn't bother.
IP: 86.185.111.242
Pete K

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Joined: 08/02/2009
Location: The Peak District or Snowdonia

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Masson Video
Posted: 09/02/2019 12:16:16
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Drinking, smoking and littering mainly. Smashed glass, vomit, glow-sticks etc...
Lots of reports of this on the increase this last summer. We got the site taken off Google Maps and DCA are chatting to the owner about installing some private land signs at the top gate and car park. It won't affect caver access, but just might keep the odd unwelcome visitor away. Myself and another instructor once accosted 2 chaps walking down with geology hammers, ready to collect some samples. They were informed that they were on private land and not public land and they soon left.
Any gates or locks appearing here would not go down well with the caving community and would be a hinderance with the farmer. I'd expect pitchforks would be sharpened at the merest murmur of locks on Giant's.
If we wish to resist the need to secure sites more often though, we should consider the amount of info that we put out in the public domain that can be found very easily.

I echo what I said before, 'we' should not feel that we have to stop making films, pictures and publications for public consumption, but should perhaps consider if not naming the site would take anything away from your work and the possible consequence of greater public exposure if you did.

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Spending far too much time at meetings for my liking.
IP: 95.146.23.88
Digit

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Joined: 29/07/2009
Location: North Wales

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Masson Video
Posted: 09/02/2019 13:57:09
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Just a suggestion. Perhaps not giving the actual name of the site but some vague reference, such as 'in the South West Corner of XXshire'. And for the community (US) the inclusion within the video of some 'obvious to the community' underground feature.

--

~~~ The future is not what it used to be ~~~
IP: 92.3.4.185
matthewjc

Joined: 13/12/2007
Location: Llanrug

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Masson Video
Posted: 12/02/2019 18:26:37
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"I dont think your average smack head is looking at cave/dive videos on Youtube as a place to go and get high, "

I dont think the problem was reported as "your average smack head" more groups of young folk having a drink and a burn, which I'm sure is a fairly popular and fairly harmless pastime with young folk for the last few decades and in their (uninformed) minds are doing no wrong with regards to their behaviour.

Agree ownership and education is the way forward and do agree a bit of discretion is needed on social media with regards to names and locations etc. If any genuine explorers want to visit they can pm the poster....

Some fantastic trips have been lost over the last few years due to excessive posting on SM etc, let's do what we can to avoid any more being lost...

Regards
Matt

IP: 46.68.8.187
mae

Joined: 15/12/2015

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Masson Video
Posted: 12/02/2019 21:56:04
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I think saftey is a bigger issue.I have three times in the past three months had to guide out partys of young folk ,at there request ,clearly heavily under the influance of alchohol and drugs.
And had to clear up the mess of,beer bottles and cans,food wrappers,candles,spraypaint cans ect.
From what i have experienced i think it falls to social media and urbex forums.
IP: 88.109.82.148 Edited: 12/02/2019 21:56:56 by mae
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