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| Author | Horror! home made rope ladder in winzes. |
royfellows Joined: 13/06/2007 Location: Great Wyrley near Walsall View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
Horror! home made rope ladder in winzes.
Posted: 19/09/2011 11:49:55 Reply | Quote The weekend of 17th Sept 2011 saw a field meet of the WMS at Nantymwyne, south Wales. On the Saturday I undertook a descent of the workings on Roderick Lode from level 'Cadno', and was totally horrified to see the first 3 pitches rigged with a home made rope ladder constructed from tree branches and blue polypropylene rope. This is the worst example of an accident waiting to happen that I have ever seen and my purpose in posting this is in the hope that my message of caution may reach those responsible. For goodness sake invest in some proper ropes and SRT kit. An accident will cast a deep shadow over the future exploration of these very interesting workings as well as the consequences, which will probably be fatal, for the person concerned. The picture shows this rope in situ. The 'corkscrew' at the top is a freehanger of about 30 plus feet followed by the decent of footwall shown in the picture. (click image to open full size image in new window) -- ''the stopes soared beyond the range of our caplamps' - David Bick...... How times change IP: 78.150.195.20 Edited: 19/09/2011 11:56:23 by royfellows |
Vanoord Joined: 28/11/2005 Location: North Wales View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
Horror! home made rope ladder in winzes.
Posted: 19/09/2011 11:59:56 Reply | Quote Interesting!  I think perhaps the Lyon electron ladders have a lot to be said in their favour... -- Filling space until a new signature comes along... IP: 81.130.97.30 |
AR Joined: 07/11/2007 Location: Knot far from Knotlow in the middle of the Peak District View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
Horror! home made rope ladder in winzes.
Posted: 19/09/2011 12:48:30 Reply | Quote 'kinell! I think free-climbing would be marginally safer than that ladder.... -- I am currently out of the office on leave and travelling through time but will respond to your message when I return last week. IP: 194.159.145.70 |
SimonRL Joined: 27/11/2005 Location: North Wales View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
Horror! home made rope ladder in winzes.
Posted: 19/09/2011 13:15:24 Reply | Quote That looks terrifying Roy Did you remove the DIY rope ladder? -- You no worry about saftey. It no cause explosion yet. IP: 95.147.254.149 |
BertyBasset Joined: 13/12/2007 Location: Caernarfon, North Wales View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
Horror! home made rope ladder in winzes.
Posted: 19/09/2011 13:22:09 Reply | Quote Nice photo lighting though 
IP: 194.28.139.160
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SimonRL Joined: 27/11/2005 Location: North Wales View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
Horror! home made rope ladder in winzes.
Posted: 19/09/2011 13:24:39 Reply | Quote BertyBasset wrote: Nice photo lighting though Agreed  Shows the horror of the rope ladder to best effect as well -- You no worry about saftey. It no cause explosion yet. IP: 95.147.254.149 |
ChrisJC Joined: 13/10/2007 Location: Northants View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
Horror! home made rope ladder in winzes.
Posted: 19/09/2011 13:27:12 Reply | Quote If I had found that, I'd have started looking for RF written somewhere  Chris. IP: 90.152.39.96 |
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royfellows Joined: 13/06/2007 Location: Great Wyrley near Walsall View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
Horror! home made rope ladder in winzes.
Posted: 19/09/2011 14:46:43 Reply | Quote I never interfere with other peoples in situ equipment, besides I was short on time, and had to de rig everything myself and get out of Dodge in time to catch the evening meal. The weight of 400 feet of wet rope is no joke; fortunately the Skody was on the forest track just above the level. I had forgotten the WMS newsletter so didn't know where the meal was, so I cruised around Llandovery trying to spot familiar cars. In the end I saw 'Mole' having a fag outside the right pub. After, having no time to get to the camp site before the meal and get the tent up, I drove up to Lynn Brianne dam and slept in the car. 24 hour toilets there which is convenient. Weather was atrocious. Back on thread, I have been thinking about other implications of this. The top section of home made ladder is an attraction for people to go down. At the bottom of the first pitch I heard voices above and made voice contact thinking they were more WMS following me down They weren’t. And there has been a lot of traffic in and out of the level, you can see this. Frankly, the top section needs removing, end of. I shall be back there later in the year with David James and this will be a good time to get it done. In the meantime, if anyone knows who this belongs too, please have a word with them It needs sorting badly. -- ''the stopes soared beyond the range of our caplamps' - David Bick...... How times change IP: 78.150.195.20 |
Roy Morton Joined: 09/10/2007 Location: Redruth Cornwall View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
Horror! home made rope ladder in winzes.
Posted: 19/09/2011 23:25:50 Reply | Quote I would rather trust my 25 yr old electron that I still haven't got round to chucking out. Rip it out, get rid of IT before it gets rid of someone.  -- 'Bid me discourse, I will enchant thine ear' IP: 81.151.45.234 |
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Alasdair Neill Joined: 10/12/2008 View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
Horror! home made rope ladder in winzes.
Posted: 20/09/2011 09:24:11 Reply | Quote Would probably have been less trouble to follow the example of someone at Ding Dong who just used a roll of wire fencing. Unfortunately it looks like it wasn't quite long enough to reach the nain level, but it still got them the full length of the roll (30m in a wet shaft). Perfectly safe as long as you've got a good lifeline. Certainly no need for SRT! IP: 46.60.252.99 |
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Peter Burgess Joined: 01/07/2008 Location: Merstham. Or is it Godstone ...... ? View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
Horror! home made rope ladder in winzes.
Posted: 20/09/2011 10:08:40 Reply | Quote Alasdair Neill wrote: Would probably have been less trouble to follow the example of someone at Ding Dong who just used a roll of wire fencing. Unfortunately it looks like it wasn't quite long enough to reach the nain level, but it still got them the full length of the roll (30m in a wet shaft). Perfectly safe as long as you've got a good lifeline. Certainly no need for SRT! I used a roll of stock fence to climb down my first shaft in the mid 70s. Mind you, it was only about 10 feet deep! -- Hé ! Ki kapcsolva le a villanyt ? IP: 81.144.191.248 |
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royfellows Joined: 13/06/2007 Location: Great Wyrley near Walsall View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
Horror! home made rope ladder in winzes.
Posted: 20/09/2011 11:09:10 Reply | Quote Stop it you two, you'll be giving people the wrong kind of ideas! -- ''the stopes soared beyond the range of our caplamps' - David Bick...... How times change IP: 78.150.195.20 |
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Peter Burgess Joined: 01/07/2008 Location: Merstham. Or is it Godstone ...... ? View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
Horror! home made rope ladder in winzes.
Posted: 20/09/2011 11:11:58 Reply | Quote I was wearing a helmet though.  -- Hé ! Ki kapcsolva le a villanyt ? IP: 94.193.19.239 |
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royfellows Joined: 13/06/2007 Location: Great Wyrley near Walsall View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
Horror! home made rope ladder in winzes.
Posted: 20/09/2011 12:20:14 Reply | Quote Peter Burgess wrote: I was wearing a helmet though. -- ''the stopes soared beyond the range of our caplamps' - David Bick...... How times change IP: 78.150.195.20 |
spitfire Joined: 22/04/2008 Location: Camborne View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
Horror! home made rope ladder in winzes.
Posted: 20/09/2011 13:18:49 Reply | Quote royfellows wrote: Stop it you two, you'll be giving people the wrong kind of ideas! I second that, have some thought for the people who have to rescue idiots that use these methods -- spitfire IP: 86.175.123.107 |
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Peter Burgess Joined: 01/07/2008 Location: Merstham. Or is it Godstone ...... ? View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
Horror! home made rope ladder in winzes.
Posted: 20/09/2011 13:56:01 Reply | Quote As a member of SECRO and an unrelated surface SAR team I resent the implication that I don't have thoughts for members of rescue teams. -- Hé ! Ki kapcsolva le a villanyt ? IP: 94.193.19.239 |
stuey Joined: 15/08/2007 View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
Horror! home made rope ladder in winzes.
Posted: 20/09/2011 15:24:13 Reply | Quote Mineral collectors! Have you seen the orange rope in the back of a certain pipes-and-skiproad tamar valley mine? We climbed through some ridiculous stoping and thought "we've got to have been the first here" and there was an orange rope going up a vertical stope beyond the unclimbable. They must have got up there with rockets as there was nowhere to put a maypole. IP: 94.197.88.47 |
ditzy Joined: 14/07/2008 Location: wolstanton View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
Horror! home made rope ladder in winzes.
Posted: 20/09/2011 15:33:36 Reply | Quote great pic! i think free climbing might actually be safer  -- [link] my underground blog IP: 81.155.55.138 |
davel Joined: 24/07/2007 Location: Gwynedd View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
Horror! home made rope ladder in winzes.
Posted: 20/09/2011 21:05:05 Reply | Quote I would like to offer a different opinion on this ... Having started caving without instruction after reading books and making a light (cannibalised bicycle lamp on a miner's helmet and a bell battery on a waist belt) I'm not entirely against this sort of thing. (I have to admit to even resorting to blue polyprop rope for a handline when nothing else was available.) However, I do hope that: (a) they tested the ladder above ground to see if it was strong enough and they could climb it, (b) they rigged it from something sensible (I don't know what they rigged it from in this case), and (c) they told someone where they were going and what time they should be back. I'm not in favour of improvised tackle like that being left in situ as there's the possibility someone else may be tempted to use it. Dave IP: 195.137.87.110 |
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royfellows Joined: 13/06/2007 Location: Great Wyrley near Walsall View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
Horror! home made rope ladder in winzes.
Posted: 20/09/2011 21:57:45 Reply | Quote Hi Dave, braf eich gweld I don’t think that my opinion is much different to yours. We all have to start somewhere, and lighting, .... well we wont go into that. Anyway, one would hope that the people who installed this use some kind of lifeline. If so then this is no different from established laddering technique, except see below. (NOTE: Statistically main cause of accidents underground is laddering without a lifeline) It was rigged from bolts put in by me many years ago and later put in for a NAMHO event in 2002, so no problem with the belays. However, to be explicit, I wish to explain my problems with this. #1 The wood used in the rungs will eventually rot. When one goes the user will drop down onto the next rung down. What do you think this one will do? Answer on a postcard. What kind of lifeline if any used? Would those at the top be able to arrest the fall? We are talking pitches here up to 120 feet # 2 The fact that this 'system' has been left in situ is what I would call an "attractive nuisance", (rather like some of the ladies I have had the pleasure of knowing). Basically, anyone entering the level and seeing the ladder there in place could well be tempted to use it. If this happens then, no lifeline. All the explorers trust is put into the ladder, ref my point above. #3 Putting aside the 2 points above, the blue polypropylene was basically little more than cord, not even proper rope. So what is its breaking strain? Also, the method of construction was by drilling a hole through the pieces of tree branch and passing the cord through and then tying a knot in it. Originally caving ladder was constructed in this way, but not from tree branches. It was from good quality timber cut into flats so that there was sufficient width to drill holes without weakening the rung. A final thought on this. I appreciate all those who have expressed their opinions, but it was only I posting on here that has actually seen this for real. Just to end. I am disturbed by what I saw, obvious from the fact that I started a thread on the subject. But I am very unsure of what to do about it. I am really hoping that somehow these postings will get to the attention of the person or persons responsible so that something can be done by mutual consent. -- ''the stopes soared beyond the range of our caplamps' - David Bick...... How times change IP: 78.150.195.20 |
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