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stevem Joined: 21/08/2006 Location: Wirral View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
The Hunter Tunneler Returns!
Posted: 10/07/2008 09:43:25 Reply | Quote This one in the Machno Valley is 14.3 M diameter, does the diameter vary much from bore to bore? IP: 192.171.196.149 |
Vanoord Joined: 28/11/2005 Location: North Wales View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
The Hunter Tunneler Returns!
Posted: 10/07/2008 11:27:12 Reply | Quote 1.43m surely?! Otherwise we're looking at a 47' diameter bore rather than 4'8"  -- Filling space until a new signature comes along... IP: 217.39.127.209 |
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Vanoord Joined: 28/11/2005 Location: North Wales View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
The Hunter Tunneler Returns!
Posted: 10/07/2008 11:42:19 Reply | Quote Just for sake of comparison, this is the single-bore version: (click image to open full size image in new window) I wonder if any of the bores show signs of the the tunneller being backed up and the waste not removed, ie a deep groove the diameter of the tunnel with a 'plug' remaining? Presumably, once the tunneller had cut the bore, it would have had to be backed out of the way, the plug broken down and removed - the early version seems not to have any means of breaking down the material from the middle of the tunnel, rather it appears to work like a hole saw. -- Filling space until a new signature comes along... IP: 217.39.127.209 |
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stevem Joined: 21/08/2006 Location: Wirral View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
The Hunter Tunneler Returns!
Posted: 10/07/2008 11:49:28 Reply | Quote Vanoord wrote: 1.43m surely?! Otherwise we're looking at a 47' diameter bore rather than 4'8"   It's 14.3 M long!!! 2040mm diameter IP: 192.171.196.149 Edited: 10/07/2008 11:52:19 by stevem |
JohnnearCfon Joined: 22/12/2005 Location: Sir Caernarfon View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
The Hunter Tunneler Returns!
Posted: 10/07/2008 12:48:21 Reply | Quote Vanoord wrote: I wonder if any of the bores show signs of the the tunneller being backed up and the waste not removed, ie a deep groove the diameter of the tunnel with a 'plug' remaining? Presumably, once the tunneller had cut the bore, it would have had to be backed out of the way, the plug broken down and removed - the early version seems not to have any means of breaking down the material from the middle of the tunnel, rather it appears to work like a hole saw. Several have the groove carrying on for an inch or two (and I seem to remember one went on for several inches. -- Cadwch Cymru'n daclus-Taflwch eich ysbwriel yn LLoeger IP: 89.241.201.63 |
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Peter Burgess Joined: 01/07/2008 Location: Merstham. Or is it Godstone ...... ? View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
The Hunter Tunneler Returns!
Posted: 10/07/2008 13:41:18 Reply | Quote  7 ft diameter drive out under the beach and the English Channel at Folkestone in 1880, a project run by Sir Edward Watkin. Info from KURG. This was soft-rock mining though. -- Hey, who turned out the lights! IP: 81.144.191.248 Edited: 10/07/2008 13:42:28 by Peter Burgess |
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Peter Burgess Joined: 01/07/2008 Location: Merstham. Or is it Godstone ...... ? View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
The Hunter Tunneler Returns!
Posted: 10/07/2008 13:48:37 Reply | Quote Sorry - slightly off topic, but Check this link: [link] and the subsequent one for more info! [link] [link] -- Hey, who turned out the lights! IP: 81.144.191.248 Edited: 10/07/2008 13:50:13 by Peter Burgess |
Gwyn Joined: 23/10/2007 Location: Bethesda. View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
The Hunter Tunneler Returns!
Posted: 10/07/2008 16:41:54 Reply | Quote Thanks for making the links, JnC. 
IP: 92.19.61.1
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Gwyn Joined: 23/10/2007 Location: Bethesda. View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
The Hunter Tunneler Returns!
Posted: 10/07/2008 19:33:19 Reply | Quote Pedantic, I know, but the two pictures that Grahami posted, courtesy of Seend, are of a Cooke and Hunter machine. I assume that the machine in the pictures, given the turbine and other details, is a within patent variant of the 1866 Cooke and Hunter patent. It is very interesting to see the evolution between the 1864 Hunter patent and the two pictures. W.F. Cooke is the Cooke of Cooke and Wheatstone. ...and I'm just as mystified as everybody else! IP: 92.19.61.1 |
grahami Joined: 29/01/2007 Location: Telford, Shropshire View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
The Hunter Tunneler Returns!
Posted: 11/07/2008 10:34:28 Reply | Quote Vanoord wrote: Hmmmm - in the picture of the tunneler, the vein drops to the right in the direction of forwards travel. However, at Cooke's as you look in, the vein drops to the left iirc? Thus, the tunneler would be set up to drill 'out' in the picture, which seems a bit odd to me. I was going to say you're confused, but looking at it again you are quite right! Well spotted! I was so blinded by the machine I'd lost track of the vein. This makes it all the stranger - where on earth was the photo taken,? It was obviously taken from above, there's the tip of a tripod crane visible at the bottom of the lower phot, suggesting that this was in the open quarry, there's very little hint of a level to the left, so the machine must have been brought into the "chamber" from below the photographer.... I suspect that the two diameters of pipe lting on the ground in the lower photo are the clue as to how water was conveyed to the turbine while the machine was moving. Also it looks as though it moved by means of chains - a higher res scan of the bottom picture shows a worm gear on the end of shaft Q driving something - I suspect rollers at the rear, pulling on chains at the front to an anchor when cutting, and reversed, pulling on chains to an anchor behind it. These are also visible in a larger scan (Thanks again seend) I've got the best part of an idea of how it was worked, but havn't got time at this instant to type it all out, and I think it might need sketches! There's a picture of a cut chunk in the Maenofferen Archive album. I'm beginning to worry about that double boreabove floor 2 1/2 - was that a trial of both machines. You do realise that there were at least three machines ? The one in the photos, the single borer and the twin/quad head one! Cheers all Grahami -- The map is the territory - especially in chain scale. IP: 86.142.22.57 Edited: 13/07/2008 09:54:13 by (moderator) |
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Vanoord Joined: 28/11/2005 Location: North Wales View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
The Hunter Tunneler Returns!
Posted: 11/07/2008 11:13:25 Reply | Quote Whereabouts was this taken? My best guess based on your other pics would be Floor 2 under the Back Vein Incline? It looks not-dissimilar to the chamber where the twin-head machine is pictured? (click image to open full size image in new window) This has to have been bored with a single head machine, as does the Old Quarry trial: (click image to open full size image in new window) I'd still argue that Cooke's was cut with two passes of the twin-head machine due to the upper pair of cuts extending further than the lower two, but it certainly points towards at least two different machines being employed at Maenofferen and potentially others elsewhere, namely: - Single head (trepanning) tunneler at Maenofferen (1864 patent) - Twin head tunneler at Maenofferen - ??? tunneler at Llanberis ??? - Single head at Cwm Penmachno (whereabouts is this, Steve?) - Single (or double tunneler - or both?!) at Abercwmeiddaw Single head revised form (1866 patent, never built?) Have I missed any? -- Filling space until a new signature comes along... IP: 217.39.127.209 Edited: 11/07/2008 11:29:46 by Vanoord |
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JohnnearCfon Joined: 22/12/2005 Location: Sir Caernarfon View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
The Hunter Tunneler Returns!
Posted: 11/07/2008 11:28:01 Reply | Quote Where is the one at Llanberis please? Also the one at Cwm Penmachno? -- Cadwch Cymru'n daclus-Taflwch eich ysbwriel yn LLoeger IP: 84.13.15.66 |
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grahami Joined: 29/01/2007 Location: Telford, Shropshire View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
The Hunter Tunneler Returns!
Posted: 11/07/2008 11:35:47 Reply | Quote JohnnearCfon wrote: Where is the one at Llanberis please? Also the one at Cwm Penmachno? Llanberis is a good question - no-one is quite sure, the bext candidate is supposed to be Cefn Du, but as far as I know no-one has reported any circular tunnels there -probably either buried or worked away. I'll transcribe the whole reference I've got and post it asap. I'll consider the number of machines again at leisure. - Yes, the picture is the level under the Back Vein incline, but the strata is wrong for the tunneler photohgraph, as you rightly said, it's the other way - even mirroring the photo doesn't make it fit! Grahami -- The map is the territory - especially in chain scale. IP: 212.219.117.101 |
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JohnnearCfon Joined: 22/12/2005 Location: Sir Caernarfon View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
The Hunter Tunneler Returns!
Posted: 11/07/2008 11:38:20 Reply | Quote Graham, I am now totally confused about which bores you are referring to! There is the 2 or 4 bore Cooke's level The single bore (with start of second) on Floor 2 The double bore in old quarry. Which one of these are you referring to as "above 2 1/2"? -- Cadwch Cymru'n daclus-Taflwch eich ysbwriel yn LLoeger IP: 84.13.15.66 |
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stevem Joined: 21/08/2006 Location: Wirral View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
The Hunter Tunneler Returns!
Posted: 11/07/2008 11:38:48 Reply | Quote JohnnearCfon wrote: Where is the one at Llanberis please? Also the one at Cwm Penmachno? Cwm Penmachno one is down in the slate tips at the bottom. A stones throw from the main road! Linked the lower quarry (now filled in) to drain it I presume. It is part built up tunnel (similar to Cwmorthin smoke flue) and then bored and then rock. Chest deep water at start then shallowing to below wellie depth, eventually blocked. Tunnel runs parallel with what was a tramway running down from the quarry. -- May the fleas of a thousand camels infest the crotch of the person who screws up your day and may their arms be too short to scratch. IP: 192.171.196.149 |
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grahami Joined: 29/01/2007 Location: Telford, Shropshire View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
The Hunter Tunneler Returns!
Posted: 11/07/2008 11:46:45 Reply | Quote Sorry - double bore in "old quarry" is what I mean by "above 2 1/2" - as that was often referred to as the "2 1/2" quarry. A possibility for the site of the photo is somewhere in the old quarry, before it was thoroughly worked out or wrecked. Maybe at or below the level of the double bore - if the machine was working eastwards, that would fit the vein shown in the photo. It always worried me that the double bore seems to start from such a narrow ledge! Did the single head machine have an underslung turntable???? I'm whacked after a marathon of bathroom rebuilding before the carpet fitters arrived today. Need some Guinness I guess! Graham -- The map is the territory - especially in chain scale. IP: 212.219.117.101 |
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JohnnearCfon Joined: 22/12/2005 Location: Sir Caernarfon View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
The Hunter Tunneler Returns!
Posted: 11/07/2008 12:45:25 Reply | Quote Thanks Graham I understand it now. Enjoy your Guiness, sounds like you need it! Steve thanks for the Penmachno info, will investigate that sometime. -- Cadwch Cymru'n daclus-Taflwch eich ysbwriel yn LLoeger IP: 84.13.15.66 |
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stevem Joined: 21/08/2006 Location: Wirral View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
The Hunter Tunneler Returns!
Posted: 11/07/2008 13:34:37 Reply | Quote JohnnearCfon wrote: T Steve thanks for the Penmachno info, will investigate that sometime. Just give me a shout when you plan to go and i'll pass on more detailed info. -- May the fleas of a thousand camels infest the crotch of the person who screws up your day and may their arms be too short to scratch. IP: 192.171.196.149 Edited: 11/07/2008 13:35:17 by stevem |
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grahami Joined: 29/01/2007 Location: Telford, Shropshire View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
The Hunter Tunneler Returns!
Posted: 11/07/2008 14:24:57 Reply | Quote Here is the Mining Journal's account of the AGM of the Llanberis Slate Co. on January 1868 Reading between the lines, and in view of how WFC was reputed to have lost all his money in mining companies in North Wales, one wonders just who saw who coming.... Which site it was is not known at present. Grahami [link] -- The map is the territory - especially in chain scale. IP: 212.219.117.101 |
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JohnnearCfon Joined: 22/12/2005 Location: Sir Caernarfon View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
The Hunter Tunneler Returns!
Posted: 11/07/2008 14:31:57 Reply | Quote Is the reference in that document to "a trial tunnel on Floor 9" be any clue? -- Cadwch Cymru'n daclus-Taflwch eich ysbwriel yn LLoeger IP: 84.13.15.66 |
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