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merddinemrys Joined: 13/03/2006 Location: Barmouth View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
Mining Terminology - Horse Levels
Posted: 10/06/2008 18:25:50 Reply | Quote Am I correct in thinking that a horse level is the bottom adit regardless of whether horses were ever used or not? -- Life is a place, where we dig in a hole, to earn enough money, to buy enough bread, to get enough strength, to dig in a hole. IP: 81.141.137.165 Edited: 10/06/2008 18:26:17 by merddinemrys |
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jagman Joined: 11/03/2007 View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
Mining Terminology - Horse Levels
Posted: 10/06/2008 18:44:28 Reply | Quote As far as I am aware, Horse Levels are tramming levels. Therefor generally, but not always, at the lowest point directly accesable to surface (not necessarily the lowest working level) Obviously not all tramming levels were horse drawn. In bigger, deeper mines there are tramming levles much deeper below. I stand to be corrected  but as far as I know horse level is much the same as tramming level
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merddinemrys Joined: 13/03/2006 Location: Barmouth View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
Mining Terminology - Horse Levels
Posted: 10/06/2008 19:49:57 Reply | Quote Thanks Jagman. -- Life is a place, where we dig in a hole, to earn enough money, to buy enough bread, to get enough strength, to dig in a hole. IP: 81.141.137.165 |
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tiger99 Joined: 07/03/2008 Location: London View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
Mining Terminology - Horse Levels
Posted: 10/06/2008 20:44:30 Reply | Quote Yes, that seems to be how the terminology is used in Scotland too. The Horse Level on the New Glencreiff Vein at Wanlockhead, for example, is definitely not the lowest adit. Strangely, it does not seem to be well situated to bring ore out of, halfway up a steep little glen. IP: 212.159.79.249 |
carnkie Joined: 07/09/2007 Location: camborne, cornwall View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
Mining Terminology - Horse Levels
Posted: 10/06/2008 21:36:29 Reply | Quote tiger99 wrote: Yes, that seems to be how the terminology is used in Scotland too. The Horse Level on the New Glencreiff Vein at Wanlockhead, for example, is definitely not the lowest adit. Strangely, it does not seem to be well situated to bring ore out of, halfway up a steep little glen. I'm slightly confused here. I don't think the term applies in the south west but are not adits and levels ( horse or otherwise) separate, not only practically but in terminology as well. Perhaps it's a regional thing. IP: 88.105.133.103 |
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merddinemrys Joined: 13/03/2006 Location: Barmouth View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
Mining Terminology - Horse Levels
Posted: 10/06/2008 21:38:27 Reply | Quote As far as I'm aware, adits are levels which break out to the surface. I stand to be corrected though! -- Life is a place, where we dig in a hole, to earn enough money, to buy enough bread, to get enough strength, to dig in a hole. IP: 81.141.137.165 |
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tiger99 Joined: 07/03/2008 Location: London View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
Mining Terminology - Horse Levels
Posted: 10/06/2008 22:17:18 Reply | Quote But an adit may be sloping too.... Then you get "day levels" which do break out into daylight. I think that term is used in Wales, but I may be wrong. Then in coal mining terminology in Central Scotland a sloping tunnel underground is a "mine", possibly a "dipping mine" even if it is at the bottom of a shaft. All very confusing, but at least it gives us something to discuss. IP: 212.159.79.249 |
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carnkie Joined: 07/09/2007 Location: camborne, cornwall View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
Mining Terminology - Horse Levels
Posted: 10/06/2008 22:17:47 Reply | Quote More or less. I understood them to be tunnels driven almost horizontally from low ground to allow natural drainage of mines on higher ground. They also gave access and ventilation to shallow workings as well as allowing miners to discover new lodes by cutting crosscutting tunnels. I'm not sure about their connection to levels so my slight confusion with Tiger99s post. 
IP: 88.105.198.58
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Mr.C Joined: 23/03/2008 Location: North Staffordshire View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
Mining Terminology - Horse Levels
Posted: 10/06/2008 22:25:02 Reply | Quote An adit is always out to day, & may or may not be for drainage. To add to the ambiguity a sough is always for drainage, but may or may not be out to day! -- If things dunner change - the'll stop as the' are. IP: 91.110.110.226 |
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tiger99 Joined: 07/03/2008 Location: London View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
Mining Terminology - Horse Levels
Posted: 10/06/2008 22:31:43 Reply | Quote I never new that a sough might not be out to day. But that may be because we don't have soughs in Scotland, probably because we don't know how to pronounce the word. Am I correct in thinking that it rhymes with "plough"? Now, concerning surface features sometimes found at mines, but also at mills and other places too, we don't have "leats" but we do have "lades". But maybe we all can agree that a shaft is a shaft? Or maybe not..... 
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Buckhill Joined: 08/04/2008 View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
Mining Terminology - Horse Levels
Posted: 10/06/2008 22:36:11 Reply | Quote That's how I've always understood it too carnkie - adits are the lowest (drainage) levels out to day. The horse levels were the principle drawing levels, not necessarily the lowest, but coming to day at a convenient point for dressing floors or onward transport. IP: 86.158.221.185 |
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Buckhill Joined: 08/04/2008 View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
Mining Terminology - Horse Levels
Posted: 10/06/2008 22:44:51 Reply | Quote Just looked at Greenwell's " Glossary of terms used.........in Northumberland and Durham" (1888) definition of "adit". "A drift commonly waterlevel, driven into a mine from a hillside, a grove". A grove = "a drift or adit driven into a hillside from which coal is worked. a drift into a seam of coal from the outcrop". IP: 86.158.221.185 |
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carnkie Joined: 07/09/2007 Location: camborne, cornwall View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
Mining Terminology - Horse Levels
Posted: 10/06/2008 23:23:52 Reply | Quote Might be interesting then to define what a level is, or perhaps eye opening. As far as I'm aware the levels were measured below the adit. IP: 88.105.235.191 |
AR Joined: 07/11/2007 Location: Knot far from Knotlow in the middle of the Peak District View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
Mining Terminology - Horse Levels
Posted: 11/06/2008 10:15:01 Reply | Quote tiger99 wrote: I never new that a sough might not be out to day. But that may be because we don't have soughs in Scotland, probably because we don't know how to pronounce the word. Am I correct in thinking that it rhymes with "plough"? Now, concerning surface features sometimes found at mines, but also at mills and other places too, we don't have "leats" but we do have "lades". But maybe we all can agree that a shaft is a shaft? Or maybe not..... It's usually pronounced "suff" but some old documents talk about sowes so it's possible both pronuncuations were in use in the past. A sough is always a drainage level, but where t'owd man found an underground sink hole, as they did at Chapeldale, Marks Dale and Tideslow Rake, they might drive a level to it for drainage. You also sometimes see the term "water gate" used for a sough. Just to throw even more confusion into the mix, a sough tail that came to day might be referred to as a bolt, especially if it was cut-and-cover work, and a leat is sometimes referred to as a goit, especially in connection with a water wheel, or a launder.... -- Follow the horses, Johnny my laddie, Follow the horses canny lad-oh IP: 217.205.66.68 |
JohnnearCfon Joined: 22/12/2005 Location: Sir Caernarfon View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
Mining Terminology - Horse Levels
Posted: 11/06/2008 11:38:30 Reply | Quote carnkie wrote: Might be interesting then to define what a level is, or perhaps eye opening. As far as I'm aware the levels were measured below the adit. I think the West Country and North Wales use different terminology, not helped by Ordnance Survey marking all adits as "level" or "old level". Adits, as ME said earlier refers to any level that comes out to the surface, at whatever height of the mine. The various levels are normally called floors if underground even if they go out to the surface too. Tunnels for drainage are often just referred to as "Drainage Adits" -- Cadwch Cymru'n daclus-Taflwch eich ysbwriel yn LLoeger IP: 84.13.22.136 |
Moorebooks Joined: 28/11/2007 Location: Newport, Shropshire View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
Mining Terminology - Horse Levels
Posted: 11/06/2008 12:21:59 Reply | Quote Shaft could also be called a Winze or even Rise? Mike IP: 92.42.56.244 |
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carnkie Joined: 07/09/2007 Location: camborne, cornwall View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
Mining Terminology - Horse Levels
Posted: 11/06/2008 12:32:21 Reply | Quote I suppose technically that's true but down these parts a Winze is a shaft connecting two levels 
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Moorebooks Joined: 28/11/2007 Location: Newport, Shropshire View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
Mining Terminology - Horse Levels
Posted: 11/06/2008 12:44:38 Reply | Quote thats how I read it IP: 92.42.56.244 |
Manicminer Joined: 29/04/2007 Location: North Wales View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
Mining Terminology - Horse Levels
Posted: 11/06/2008 20:18:30 Reply | Quote Back in the day when I was a miner, these were the term we used. A shaft goes down vertical from surface. Winze is an underground shaft not breaking through to surface. It may or may not connect to another level. A raise is a shaft that goes upwards and may or may not connect to another level. Adit is the lowest level in that part of the workings. Most of the mines in my area were started at the top of the hill and as the work has progressed lower down into the valley a new adit would have been driven in to access the workings. If it drains the mine, then I call it an Adit even if that means the mine may have 2 - 3 drainage adits at different horizons, the rest are levels. Levels are normal tunnels that may or may not break out to surface. -- Gold is where you find it IP: 90.240.88.222 |
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Buckhill Joined: 08/04/2008 View Profile View Posts View Personal Album View Personal Files View all Photos Send Private Message |
Mining Terminology - Horse Levels
Posted: 11/06/2008 21:45:58 Reply | Quote In coal mining the usual term for a "blind" shaft, i.e. not from the surface, was "staple pit", though winze was sometimes used. Shafts don't have to be vertical, generally a shaft is considered to be an opening steeper than 45 degrees, under that it is a drift, although it could still be an unwalkable outlet (the Honister Inclines are 1 in 1.4 but without the steps and ladders are just on the walkable limit). Re winzes/raises - I'm probably missing something here but what purpose were they for if not connecting to other levels?
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